Tag: Clan Hay

More on DNA and genealogy

First, if you want to learn about DNA and genealogy an in depth source of information is the International Society Of Genetic Genealogy.

In “Evidence” on this site I discuss levels of proof that evidence leads us to and also that the evidence needs to be taken in totality and it is often the lack of considering all evidence (totality) that incorrect conclusions are drawn. While the DNA test is accurate, in the application of genealogy it is used to compare our DNA to others with the same or similar DNA markers. As such there is no “Scot DNA” or “Ulster DNA” which can put your ancestors in a specific spot at a specific time. Our ancestors migrated west into Europe 25,000 years ago and moved into Scotland in waves after the last ice age, some migrating back east, north, and south over time.

Often DNA is a close match but the person can be removed from consideration in your family tree due to a different surname. It is the DNA match AND surname similarity which provides the higher percentage of a recent common ancestor. As the number of people getting their DNA tested increases, and more corroborating information is shared the value and accuracy of the information will increase.

Many of us in North America look back to our country of origin when researching our roots and identify as “insert country from-American”. But in that country of origin there was also a path of settlement. In The Scots: A Genetic Journey Alistair Moffat (A must read) points out that prior to the migration to the Americas in the 16th century Scotland was the end of the western migration and that migration started after the last ice age and came in waves by several distinct tribes and different societies. I recommend this book as it not only discusses DNA but also covers hunter-gatherer settlement, the development of farming, and also historical languages.

In 10 generations you can have 1024 possible contributors to your DNA and this brings us back only to our ancestors in Scotland. To try to explain where your DNA came from Family Tree breaks it down into your “Origins” as defined by the current nations and “Ancient Origins” as defined by historical society groups in time. My origins show me 59% British (which includes Scotland), 27% Scandinavian, 8% Eastern Europe, and 4% Iberian Peninsula. My ancient break down is 43% Hunter-Gatherer society, 42% Farmer society, and 15% Metal Age Invaders society. The Scots: A Genetic Journey has a nice break down of the Hunter-gatherer, farmer, and metal worker migrations into Scotland and why my DNA shows these roots.

In my last post “the value of Y-DNA” I discussed “Nicholas Hays” whose ancestors genealogy research indicated they were from the Irish Clan “Hayes”. I have since found a site of an ancestor, Curtis Hays, who had DNA done. While his DNA ruled out relation to the Irish Clan he erroneously concludes he was not related to Clan Hay due to his DNA roots (Slav-Kurgen). Reading “The Scots” shows that this DNA is from areas that migrated into England and Scotland.

Further, who he settled with indicates a kith or kin relationship and this was ignored. While Nicholas Hays may not have a very similar DNA to John (or Patrick) Hays (a fact I am not sure of as I haven’t compared them) his settling with Ulster Presbyterians and migrating with them indicates a connection to Clan Hay. I am unsure of his religion but the books handed down at his passing were consistent with Presbyterianism. The saying that birds of a feather flock together is true for humans also. The common spelling of the surname adds to the evidence.

There are 11 listed Hay settlements, 4 in the southern lowlands of Scotland on the Clan map (top). As surnames were being adopted in the 16th century and commonly used often persons would use the Clan name. I have also found several references in 1700 Presbyterian books of the Hays being a part of that religion. My Hays ancestors are buried in a Presbyterian Church grave yard in Greene, TN. The “Hays” families who migrated to VA through PA then on to what is now Greene, TN and across that state and we can reasonably believe that the Ulstermen who migrated originally from the Scottish lowlands and were affiliated with a branch of the Clan Hay which are further back in time affiliated with the Earl of Errol’s Clan Hay.

When your Y-DNA is done it is matched with those similar to you and each person can list an “Earliest Known Ancestor”. I have corresponded with several persons who have claimed their ancestry back to Patrick Hays or John Hays both of whom settled on the Borden Land Grant in Virginia, Circa 1740 and the DNA indicates an 80% chance of a common ancestor in 10 generations, 90% at 12. My research ends at William Hays (8 generations from me) in Greene, TN. and although DNA indicates a relation to either John or Patrick I have not seen any record linking them to William Hays and then to me. The DNA has, however given me direction on where to look for the connection. I am hopeful at some point to get confirmation of the connection from a DNA Cousin.

One person shows the Earliest Known Ancestor as Sir John Hay of Tullibody d. 1418 and another shows William delaHaye (1120-1170) Lothian, Scotland. Again I have no evidence to connect the “Hays” line to William dela Haye. That said, about 1500 years ago “Expansion Clusters” began to form. These were due to increasing wealth and political power of a family offering social selection and breeding advantages and men having children with multiple women over many years. A man with 10 sons who then have ten sons has 100 related men affiliated with his Clan Banner. So while not proven on paper, it is quite possible.

Many people have listed John and Patrick Hays as brothers, and one source states that 7 Hays brothers (including them) arrived in a span of 6 years. It appears the father of the 7 brothers who migrated here, each having a large farm family (as subsequent sons did), created a bit of a DNA Expansion Cluster in America. It is confusing as whole church congregations migrated at the same time with entire families of Hays included with them. The other Hays from various parts of Ulster, many most likely with a common Hay ancestor in Scotland, dispersed across Northern Ireland where opportunity took them for several generations and then clustered together in America where opportunity and a shared belief system brought them together.

I suspect this is the story of the John and Patrick Hays brothers and Nicholas Hays. A Patrick Hays migrated to present day Derry, PA and owned land there. I suspect he was the advance for the rest of his brothers. Patrick and John both took land grants in 1740 in Virginia on the Borden Grant in the Shenandoah Valley which were given to families which “self imported” (paid their own fare over). Nicholas Hays entered as an indentured servant to a tailor in Philadelphia in 1745. From there he migrated to VA. While Patrick Hays returned to PA it appears his, and his brothers ancestors, migrated to Greene, TN which was on the western edge of the new nation. Nicholas was to also migrate there with his family.

The various Hays families participated in the French and Indian Wars and then the Revolutionary War on the side of the Colonials and in fact the Presbyterian Ulstermen (Scotch-Irish as they had come to be called) had few Tories in their ranks. Many were paid in land grants, often on the western front. As the country expanded they expanded also and played a part in history in the formation of Kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Texas, and all the way to California. Hopefully DNA and the historical record can help us sort out the whose who of the Hays in America.

Jim Hays, an American Man

Jim Hays, an American Man

By Jim Hays

What am I?  Like very kid growing up in America I asked my parents, “what are we” in reference to our country of origin.  Mom’s response was an easy one with a grandfather born in Germany and a grandmother who was first generation American from German parents.  Mom’s German.  But Dad?  “American” he would say, “American mutts”.  Schenectady was mom’s home town, dad was a transplant from out west where his kin still lived.

Over time responding to incessant inquiries Dad spoke a little of his American ancestry.  But the responses were evasive, often couched in humor.  He was from Oklahoma, an “Oakie” but  how the Hays got there, or why, was never discussed.  His dad died when he was a baby and he grew up with his mother and siblings in Texas and on his “Bachelor Uncles” Farm.  Cotton pickers and dirt poor farmers, he said.  The depression, dust bowl, and the flight to California in search of work were little discussed in detail.  There was talk in the family of “high cheek bones and black hair”, speculation of Indian blood.    He did tease, his grandmother “liked to sit on an Indian blanket in front of the cabin” but no specific tribe. What else are we Dad we asked, “We’re a little bit of everything”, “American, American Mutt”, the  reply.  Over the years I would tease a little out of him, but always a bit vague and never in depth.  The “American Mutt” stayed consistent,  “We’re a little bit of everything, American”.

It’s the early 2000’s, a new millennium.  And it occurs to me I don’t know the name of either of my grandfathers much less anything about them.  I never met either of them.  My Dad’s long gone.  And I’ve got some old family photo’s which came to me after mom had her stroke and ended up in the facility.   Who are these people?  Here I sat with her at each visit and pulled as much as I could from her until 2008.  Some names were put to pictures, but her knowledge of the paternal side was mostly what he relayed to her the two sides of my family being on opposite coasts, the west coast unknown to me.

Looking for answers, my research revealed the name hails from the Scottish Clan Hay.  I had my DNA tested and confirmed this and also that I am related to the “Scotch-Irish”, Presbyterian Ulstermen, (most likely from the Scottish borderlands initially) who migrated to America in the early 1700’s due to economic and religious persecution.  I traced my line backwards, NY, CA, TX, OK, TN, VA and see I am 9 or 10 generations removed from the Clan in Scotland.

The history of Clan Hay Scotland starts with the Norman invasion, William delaHaye of Normandy.  In one of my readings it was pointed out that the delaHaye line married 3 Celtic Princesses in a row, thus cementing it as a “Celtic line”.  Interestingly I noted that within 3 generations the Ulstermen who came to America, as did my maternal German line, mixed things up through marriage starting about the third generation.  Just as the Norman became Scottish Hay, so has the Scottish Hay become American Hays.

Dad was right, we’re mutts.  In 5 generations a person has 32 cousins, 1024 in ten, so going backwards ten generations I have 1024 people who (conceivable could have) contributed genes to me and given the paternal line that’s 1024 Americans, most of European descent.   Branch off of my tree along the line and I can probably show relations to the majority of people who landed in America in the early 1700’s as each person in a tree branches to another 1024.  But name and yDNA follows the paternal line, a Hays from a line of Hays across America and back to Ulster and Scotland.

I see heraldry (Coat of Arms) is still controlled in many places but not in America.   I’m sure I didn’t follow all the rules and am not looking to offend, but I made a Roll of Arms (Coat of Arms?) for my fathers American line.  Three red escutcheons on a white escutcheon pay homage to Clan Hay Scotland and my Celtic/Norman paternal roots. Hays came into common usage of my ancestors in Ulster-America (although often misspelled) and the cross reflects their Reformed Christian Faith for which they were persecuted and driven to America. The pine tree, an appeal to heaven, is s symbol of their fight for Liberty in the U.S. from the 1740’s to today (an early American flag). The bear is an homage to my fathers line as the symbol of courage, power and strength.  The Arms sit roadside, announcing a Clan Hays home to one and all.

I seem to have an affinity for my paternal ancestry, the yDNA, and the surname as a large part of “what am I?” and incorporate the Scottish diaspora to America into the symbols used.  The paternal line in Scotland for 800 years does add Scottish to the heritage, distinct to my line due to Ulster Presbyterian also.  But 300 years in America counts a lot.  If pressed I would say I’m an Scottish-American, pressed further, German on my mothers side.   But I am my fathers son so if asked, in homage to him and by birth, I am an American and why I (try) to tell the story of Hays on AmericanMan.org.