DNA – americanman.org

What we know – deep dive into the DNA diaspora as of 4-25-26

What we know is our diaspora is from the Copper Age to the Hallstatt Culture in the Italian Alps 1200 BCE and then from Northern Ireland in the 1600s CE to the Americas, PA and VA, in the early 1700s. What we don’t know is how we migrated from the Italian Alps 1200 BCE into Western Europe and then on into the Scottish Lowlands. As follows is review of the current DNA (sources as of April 2026), the known roots of the PA/VA Patrick/John Hays families, and theories on the migration to Scotland. The estimated DNA location are from Globetrekker on my FTDNA Big Y site. I start at R but the line goes well back of that and includes Neanderthal DNA 300,000 YBP and originates in Africa and travels though the middle east, Iran, India, China, Indochina, north through China to eastern Mongolia arriving 30,000 BCE before turning westward across the Steppe.

My, John, and Patrick Hays Y-DNA line. R, R1, R1b, M207, M173, M343, L754, L151, P312, ZZ11, U152, L2, DF103, FGC4166, BY1020, BY3510, BY43400, BY60752, FT115175, FT116590.

(Note- I use “formed” for ease of typing to explain the chance mutations to a haplogroup that occurred on the Y-DNA of our ancestors. A haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single-nucleotide polymorphism mutation).

R formed 26,000 BCE in Mongolia. R1 formed 20,000 BCE Kazakhstan. R1b formed 17,000 BCE in Uzbekistan and R-L754 just west 17,000 BCE. R-L389 formed 15,000 BCE north of the Caspian Sea in present day Georgia. R-P297 formed 13,000 BCE just north of last. R-M269 formed 4450 BCE in present day Russia north of and between the Caspian and Black Seas. R-L23 formed 4350 BCE in western Ukraine and R-L51 formed just west of R-L23 4100 BCE in central Ukraine. We travelled west through Poland and into present day Slovakia where R-P310 formed 3400 BCE. We continued west through Austria and northwest into Germany forming R-L151 3050 BCE. We travelled directly south into the Swabian Alps and formed R-P312 2900 BCE. We made a large bend first northwest then south west forming R-ZZ11 2800 BCE near Haute-Savoi, France. We travelled south to the Mediterranean Sea and followed the coast back east to just north of Pisa, Italy where R-U152 formed 2650 BCE.

We retraced our steps back past R-ZZ11 to Basel, Switzerland where R-L2 formed 2650 BCE. We migrated south where R-DF103 formed 2550 BCE. Back north again we find R-BY1020 forming 2050 BCE south of Rhin, France. R-BY3510 formed 1800 BCE just northwest of Rhin France. Traveling north R-BY43400 formed 1500 BCE just north of Luxembourg. We went north and west where R-BY60752 formed in Flanders, Belgium 1000 BCE. The map shows migration from Calais, France to Kent, England following the east coast of England and Scotland to East Lothian, Scotland and west through Glasgow, Scotland crossing the Firth of Clyde into Northern Ireland where R-FT116590 formed 1700 CE.

While we can generally match our lineage to ancient civilizations from the Yamnaya 3300-2600 BCE covering the Pontic-Caspian Steppe including north of the Black sea to the Bell Beakers 2800-1800 BCE covering all of western Europe to the Hallstatt Culture 1200-450 BCE the record of DNA and classification of cultures is just an estimate for the times they covered. We are also hindered in our DNA evidence where large gaps occur between a change in the line which occurs with our line where the gap between our known North Ireland DNA at 1700 CE and our Flanders, Belgium DNA at 1000 BCE are 2700 years apart and thus provide no clue to the migration from Europe to Great Britain, specifically Scotland and then northern Ireland which we can surmise due to the Presbyterian Religion they brought to America consistent with the diaspora of Presbyterians and John Hays and Patrick Hays written references to leaving Northern Ireland for America. .

The Haplogroups R* , Paleolithic mammoth hunters, originated in North Asia before the last glacial maximum (29,000-19,000 YBP) and split into R1b in Western Europe, R1a in Eastern Europe, Central and South Asia and R2 into South Asia. Our R1b line is the most common Haplogroups in Western Europe (80% of the population of Ireland, Scottish Highlands, and western Wales, and the Atlantic fringe of France, and 70% of the Po Valley in North-Central Italy).

(M207, M173) M343 branched during the Paleolithic Period and into (L754, L389) P297 branched during the Neolithic Period in the Caucuses between the Black and Caspian Seas. Taurine Cattle were domesticated in the Taurus Mountains (present day Turkey) and P297 is associated with this and the domestication of horses around 4600 BCE as their use spread across the Steppe.

Our Y-DNA line branched into M-269 and nomadic herders of cattle in the Caucuses during the Copper Age. The North Caucuses and the Pontic-Caspian Steppe are classified during this time as the Proto-Indo-European homeland. The R1b, M269 spread westward (Southern Yamaha Culture) with many theories on how it subsumed the existing populations of Western Europe most likely related to superior weapons and resources (cattle, lactose tolerance, horses, and copper and bronze weapons for example.

We then migrated onto the Pontic Steppe, perhaps as part of the Dnieper-Donets Culture around 5100-4300 BCE. The Y-DNA split into the L23 Branch at the turn of the Khvalynsk and Sredny Stog Periods, 4500 BCE. 99% of Indo-European descends from this L23 subclass. L51 split from L23 in East/Southeast Europe on the Eastern and Northern Black Sea as we continued our migration west into Central Europe and by 2500 BCE were in Hungary/Austria/Bohemia. It split into P310 which further split into the Proto-Italo-Celtic-Germanic branch P312 and eventually (Z40481, ZZ11) into U152. 1300 BCE U152 migrated into Switzerland, Southern Germany and Alsace France and eventually successive migrations into the Italian Alps from the north creating a Celtic Culture (Urnfeld, Hallstatt 1200 BCE, and La Teen 450 BCE our line being the L2 clade. L2 split into DF103 and then FGC4166 about 2500-2000 BCE located in Italy, Germany, and the UK/Ireland. For further see Haplogroup R1b by Maciamo Hay.

My FTDNA Y-DNA Time Tree shows R-DF103 at 2560 BCE, FGC4166 at 2169 BCE, BY1020 at 2037 BCE, BY3510 at 1783 BCE, BY43400 at 1488 BCE, BY60752 at 981 BCE, FT115175 at 1500 CE, FT116590 at 1719 CE, FT116536 at 1763 CE, and a split off that line of FT117825 at 1943.

FT115175 shows one tested with that clade. FT116590 shows 2 tested with that clade (one being me). FT116536 shows 2 tested with that clade. FT117825 shows 2 tested with that clade.

We know that John Hays and family self imported to Augusta, VA in 1740 (with a Patrick Hays family also self importing) and that a Patrick Hays and family settled in Derry, PA in 1728 from Donegal, Ireland. Using genealogy research from various Hays ancestors we determined that Patrick Hays (PA) was related to John Hays (VA) which was confirmed by DNA which showed that Patrick Hays (as his ancestors are) was R-FT116536 and John Hays (as his ancestors are) R-FT116590. The split time estimates are plus/minus mean estimates, 68% at 150 years on date given. It is quite possible given the timelines that Patrick Hays’ father was John Hays brother as any DNA split before that would have altered John Hays DNA also.

Our earliest records of Patrick Hays show he was born 1705 in Donnegal, Ireland and came to PA with his brothers Hugh, William, and James about 1728. John Hays self imported to Rockbridge, VA with his family in 1740 from Bangor, Ireland. Both families were Presbyterians. Given the history of Scotland, England, and the settlement of Northern Ireland at that time it is reasonable to assume that the Hays migrated to N. Ireland from Scotland. Hays is a sept of Clan Hay, a lowland Clan with the Clan Chief being the Earl of Erroll. In addition to land holdings of the Earl at Aberdeen there were several cadet houses in Perth, Shetland and the Scottish Borders.

Bangor, N. Ireland is in County Down and would have been a part of the Ayrshire Scots James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery Plantations in Counties Down and Antrim as part of a land scheme with the Irish Con O’Neill who had been imprisoned and sold them first part then all of his land holdings to obtain freedom. This part of Ireland sits a mere 12 miles from Scotland (visible on a good day) and attracted thousands of lowland Scots in 1607 and it is quite possible that John Hays ancestor was one of the original settlers there. The Plantation of the other Northern Ireland counties was commenced by King James about 1610 as a result of the success of the Hamilton-Montgomery ventures.

Patrick Hays came from Donegal, Ireland which is on the west coast of the island. Born there we can surmise that his father had settled there under King James settlement plans post 1610. The migrations from N. Ireland to America were primarily by locality and church members. While the rents for land were low at plantation due to the lands having been decimated during the 3 countries wars, by the 1700s the rents were increasing. The settlements in the Americas lacked labor and thus many were induced to make the arduous journey as the reward, depending on how the trip was paid for and the area settled, resulted eventually in the ownership of land.

The diaspora of the Hays in America to be discussed in future blogs.

What we don’t know: From Italian Alps to Scotland

As Clan Hay is an Anglo-Norman Clan, delaHaye from the French Vikings of Normandy, it has been speculated that my Hays line came to Scotland during the Norman invasion. But the Clan Hay Genetic Genealogy and DNA of the Hay, Hays, and Hayes of Scotland shows the Norman royalty line to be R1a. This is consistent as the R* line had a similar diaspora with R1a migrating more northerly across Europe and R1b migrating more southerly across Europe but with both groups intermingling as they moved about. the R1a more predominant in Scandinavian Countries. Sorry if you are a R1b and wished to find royal blood in your ancestry as recently it is a no.

It is possible my R1b line migrated to the French coast and was absorbed into the Normans Clan then migrated to Scotland with the R1a but I expect that is a lesser possibility. And early migrations into Ireland, England, Wales, and Scotland seem to be the R1b-U152, L21 branch to reach France by 2200 BCE and Britain 2100 BCE and Ireland by 2000 BCE bringing the Bronze Age to Ireland. My Celtic La Tene ancestors split from them being R1b, U152, L2. With the R1a migrating west to the north and the R1b L21 to the south it is not hard to imagine the westward migration of the R1b L2 was in between to the coast somewhere from Denmark to Germany to the Netherlands. If so my formerly Celtic Tribe now morphed into a Germanic one could easily have migrated to Northumbria with the 5th century Anglo “invasion.”

Interestingly the FTDNA line which has us in Flanders, Belgium is near the Frisians, a Germanic Tribe from the Zeeland Islands and Antwerp northeast adjoining the lands of the Saxons. Many Frisians migrated to England with the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons about 400 CE

As my focus is on the Hays American Man Branch I’ll have to live with the speculation of the ancestral travels from the Alps to Scotland unless and until another does the research. The American Branch of the Hays participation in American History providing more than enough research into questions which pop into my head in regard to my American ancestors and their what and why.

David K. Faux has presented 3 theories on the migration of the Haplogroup U152 into Britain. Hypothesis A explores introduction through Denmark and the Danish Vikings, hypothesis B investigates the Anglo-Saxon migrations in the 5th century, and hypothesis C is the Belgae Tribe as a source, the common denominator in all 3 hypothesis being migrations from the La Tene Culture.

Maciamo Hay provides a “Genetic History of the British and Irish people” here, with no definitive answer. https://www.academia.edu/10120872/Genetic_history_of_the_British_and_the_Irish_people?email_work_card=interaction-paper

With no definitive explanation we await further research and expect the lack of written records for this tie period has us relying on DNA and archeology to provide further evidence.

Patrick (PA) related to John (VA) related to Patrick (VA)????

Just as we almost all go back to a common ancestor in Africa 60,000 years ago I am beginning to wonder if there is common Hays ancestor of the Ulster Scot Presbyterian Hays’ who migrated first to Pennsylvania, then VA and ultimately TN and KY when the Cumberland Gap opened. Naming patterns common the Ulster Scots are used here also to assume relation. The 1st born male was usually named for the Paternal Grandfather, 2nd for the Maternal Grandfather, 3rd & 4th after an uncle. The name of a child who died in infancy was often used again in the same family. “Nephew” in written records refers to Grandsons and it wasn’t until around the Revolutionary war that we begin to see middle names used and the addition of a Sr or Jr. and “Grandson” used.

FamilyTreeDNA offers Y-DNA tests with 12, 25, 37, 67, 111 markers, and Big Y-700 (which doesn’t give you a probability for relationships (more later). I recently received my “Big Y-700” test results back and the listed most common ancestor for those I match with are both Patrick Hays of PA and John Hays of VA, assuming their posted family trees are correct. The Big y test showed a close match with JBH who identified Patrick Hays (PA) as the Earliest Known Ancestor (EKN) and we have a common Y-DNA Haplogroup of R-FT115175. The 111 test shows a JSH (R-M269) with a genetic distance of 5 related to Patrick Hays and JBH again with a genetic distance of 6. The 67 marker shows JSH at a genetic distance of 3, EGH (R-M269) with a genetic distance of 3 and the EKA as John Hays, 1752 Rockbridge, VA. (initials of people used to politely mask identities).

As I understand it (remember I am an amateur!, go to https://isogg.org, International Society of Genetic Genealogy for more), the Genetic Distance is the number of differences in a tested marker, Short Tandem Repeat (STR) and the test number is the number of markers tested. The Big Y looks at 700 STR’s and also tests Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNP, “snips”) which help identify paternal lineages 10-20 generations back. For example, there are 15 markers between me and my closest match, JSH (R-M269) as I took a larger test. Again ISOGG and FTDNA have much more information on these (and other DNA) topics.

The records (Chalkley) show a John Hays (wife Rebecca) and children self importing to Rockbridge, VA in 1740 and on the same day a Patrick Hays (wife Frances) with children. John Hays also has grown sons who arrived in VA the same time as he did. Many sites suspect these two are brothers which is incorrect (IMHO). The Bibliographic Encyclopedia of Dauphin County, PA (Encyclopedia) show that a Patrick Hays (wife Jean) arrived in Derry PA with his brother Hugh, William, and James. Patrick (PA) and Patrick (VA) having different wives and children names obviously aren’t the same person. So what is the relationship between the three and can my DNA test help?

Biographical Encyclopedia of Dauphin County, PA

Patrick (PA) was born in 1705 in County Donnegal, Ireland and came to PA in 1728 with his brothers. It is quite possible that other Hays’ came at the same time, remember, it was not uncommon for nearly the entire Church memberships or villages to leave for the Americas at the same time on the same ship, or perhaps they came shortly after with Patrick (PA) as as a stopping off point. Beverly Manor (1736) and the Borden Grant (1739) hadn’t been open to settlement yet. It also appears that Patrick (PA), John (VA) and Patrick (VA) were men of some means as they paid their passage (most came over indentured, more on that in a later blog) and could afford to purchase land. PA offered 50 acres to each man under the headlight system but much of the available good farm land was taken and more expensive to buy. The Borden Grant offered 100 acres for self importers (you had to put up a cabin and settle) and each 100 acres for a shilling.

By my calculations I estimate that John (VA) and Patrick (PA) are 8 generation from me (possibly 9). My closest match at 111 markers, JSH shows Patrick (PA) as EKA and the comparison chart estimates that there is a 76.48% probability and at 67 markers a 85.82% probability. EGH who has John (VA) as her EKA also has a 67 marker 85.82% probability. MBH at 67 shows a 51.48% probability and at 111 a 61.51% probability at 8 generations. I’m not sure why the percentages move like they do and I’ll need to do more research on that. The fact that my closest match JBH has a lower probability leads me to believe that my line does not go through John (VA) or Patrick (PA) Hays and might go through Patrick (VA) or another Hays related to him. At 10 generations JSH is at (111) 89.48 and (67) 93.34, JBH is (111) 79.93% and (67) 69.62, and EGH (67) is 93.34. At 12 generation EGH is (67) 97.09%, JSH is (111) 95.74%, and JBH (111) is 90.67%.

Using the name patterns common to Ulster Scots I see that Patrick (PA) has Brothers Hugh, William, and James and his son’s are (in birth order) David, Robert, William, Samuel, and Patrick. Patrick (VA) has sons named William and Samuel. John (VA) has sons Andrew, Charles, John, and James (deceased by 1750) with Grandsons named James and John, Jr. This indicates to me that Patrick (VA) is the nephew of Patrick (PA) with no indication if Hugh, William, or James is his father. John (VA) and Patrick (PA) are not brothers and the lack of a common name in their family trees indicates that their relationship is further than their Grandfathers.

Patrick (PA) and John (VA) sit 8 generations from me, their Grandfathers 10 but it is at 12 generations that probabilities go above 90% for all connected to me on Family Tree DNA. So going back to 12 generations from me to 1650 if A Hays had 4 sons (1675) and each of them had 4 sons (1700) which includes the about year that John (VA) and Patrick (PA) were born the two of them would have 64 cousins. And given the fact that the Ulster Scots in northern Ireland stayed among themselves due to their Presbyterian religion and that they came over to America in bulk, and given the DNA probabilities, it is highly likely that there is a Common Ancestor about the 1650’s.

But given the lack of records prior to and into the 1700’s which can identify people and their relation to each other and given the fact that the Hays, after arriving in PA in the early 1700’s spread out to new territories as the nation expanded, being among the first pioneers to settle Greene, TN (closely following the Wautauga Settlement in 1776), among the original settlers of the Cumberland Settlement (1779, Nashville), and 1775 blazing the Wilderness Road through the Cumberland Gap into Kentucky and settling there, the record will end before we get to Northern Ireland and we’ll have to rely on DNA to finish the story. To this end I encourage everyone to get their Y-DNA done at Family Tree DNA, https://www.familytreedna.com/, and find your relatives and ancestors there.

My line going backwards has a James, Thomas Jefferson (obvious where that came from), Robert Alexander, William A., George, and William b. 1773 in Rockbridge, VA d. 1857 Greene, TN and that last is my wall (for now). Patrick (PA) and Patrick (VA) both have William in their line so name matching has me suspect my line is through Patrick (PA) or one of his brothers (a father to Patrick (VA). But only field research and luck will confirm this.

And the historical research continues.

Ancient Origins from DNA

Being born in America we tend to think of ourselves as immigrants and wonder where did we come from usually following our surname back to the country which preceded our arrival in America. In my case the name “Hays” (and my research around it) reveals that my ancestors came to America from the Plantations of Northern Ireland having settled there, most likely, from the Scottish Lowlands. And while we think of Scotland as a country of similar individuals, history and DNA research reveals that many different peoples migrated to and settled in Scotland before it was Scotland as we know it today.

I highly recommend the book “The Scots: A Genetic Journey” by Alistair Moffat. He tells of the ancient history of Scotland including prehistoric and early historic times in an easy to read format which includes the most recent DNA findings regarding the migrations of people. He notes, “Every Scot is an immigrant. Until 9000 BC Scotland was empty of people and animals.” He then weaves together the story of Scotland, its people, languages, customs and culture, and how it all came together to form Scotland and the Scottish People.

Both ancestry.com and FamilyTreeDNA.com give me a geographic history of my atDNA with Family Tree even breaking my DNA down into my ancient European origins. A comparison of the geographic estimates reveals interesting results. Ancestry has me 46% England & Wales, 27% Germanic Europe, 22% Sweden, 3% Ireland-Scotland, and 2% Norway. Family Tree has me 59% British Isles, 27% Scandinavia, 8% East Europe, 4% Iberian Peninsula, and 2% Norway. The estimates are arrived by comparing my DNA to a reference sample (Ancestry advises their reference currently at 40,000 samples) so even though my DNA stays the same as more references samples are added regions are bound to be broken down into sub regions in the future providing more accurate information for the individual.

My ancient European origins estimate on Family Tree is based on DNA comparisons to those who migrated into what we know today as Europe. Family Tree DNA shows me 43% from Hunter-Gatherers, 42% from Farmers, 15% from Metal Age Invaders, and 0% non-European. Hunter-Gatherers migrated into Europe about 45,000 years ago following large herd animals as glaciers increased and decreased . Farmers migrated into Europe about 8000 years ago during the Neolithic (new stone age) Era cultivating in temperate areas. The farmers differed from the Hunter-Gatherers as they had a salivary gene which may have helped them break down starches more efficiently. The Metal Age Invaders arrived in the Bronze Age (3000-1000 BCE) and used copper, bronze, and tin tools and arrived as nomadic herders using horses and wheeled vehicles. The Metal Age Invaders originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black Sea and are closely related to the Yamnaya Culture. They brought with them a tolerance for lactose and the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1B with the M269 subclass which mixed with the local population and is now dominate in Western Europe today.

The Y-DNA follows the paternal line back through time and the mtDNA follows the maternal line back in time. Family Tree shows a migration map so my mtDNA haplogroup of H1C1 is a sub group of the H migration which after the last ice age the “H” maternal line spread across Europe and 10,000 years ago migrated into Western Europe accounting for about 30% of the population. My R-BY3510 haplogroup is a subgroup of R-U152, a sub of R-M269 and a sub of R-M343 under the R1b haplogroup. That migration map shows that 30,000 years ago the R1 group in the Eurasian Steppes split with R1a landing in Eastern Europe 10,000 years ago and R1b journeyed into Western Europe is successive waves.

Most mtDNA traces back to “Mitochondrial Eve” in East Africa 120,000 years ago and most yDNA traces back to a “yDNA Adam” in East Africa 60,000 years ago. The H maternal line migrated from Africa north to the area of the Black Sea and then west into Europe 10,000 years ago. The The R paternal line migrated north across the Middle East into Eurasia on the east side of the Caspian Sea turning west traveling north of the Black Sea into Europe 10,000 years ago. At what point from there did my ancestors first enter Scotland? I go to “The Scots” to fill in the story of how it was settled and can only guess at my ancestors particular circumstance.

America when my ancestors arrived in the 1730’s

Given the DNA I can pick a point in time and call myself by a tribal name of the various Celtic, Germanic, and other tribes which made up my ancestors DNA in Scotland. My Hays ancestors entered America in the 1730’s arriving most likely in Philadelphia with the other Scotsmen of Northern Ireland as they called themselves in a mass exodus with entire families and communities traveling together settling in Pennsylvania and Virginia and now almost 300 years in America, the continuation of our westward migration which started in Western Europe 10,000 years ago into Scotland and then Northern Ireland. It is unknown how many generations were spent in Northern Ireland but it is sure that they were not Irishmen as they considered themselves Scots with little, if any, intermarriage outside their Presbyterian Scot community. And so given that I’ll call myself a “Scottish American” with an “Ulsterman” footnote.

More on DNA and genealogy

First, if you want to learn about DNA and genealogy an in depth source of information is the International Society Of Genetic Genealogy.

In “Evidence” on this site I discuss levels of proof that evidence leads us to and also that the evidence needs to be taken in totality and it is often the lack of considering all evidence (totality) that incorrect conclusions are drawn. While the DNA test is accurate, in the application of genealogy it is used to compare our DNA to others with the same or similar DNA markers. As such there is no “Scot DNA” or “Ulster DNA” which can put your ancestors in a specific spot at a specific time. Our ancestors migrated west into Europe 25,000 years ago and moved into Scotland in waves after the last ice age, some migrating back east, north, and south over time.

Often DNA is a close match but the person can be removed from consideration in your family tree due to a different surname. It is the DNA match AND surname similarity which provides the higher percentage of a recent common ancestor. As the number of people getting their DNA tested increases, and more corroborating information is shared the value and accuracy of the information will increase.

Many of us in North America look back to our country of origin when researching our roots and identify as “insert country from-American”. But in that country of origin there was also a path of settlement. In The Scots: A Genetic Journey Alistair Moffat (A must read) points out that prior to the migration to the Americas in the 16th century Scotland was the end of the western migration and that migration started after the last ice age and came in waves by several distinct tribes and different societies. I recommend this book as it not only discusses DNA but also covers hunter-gatherer settlement, the development of farming, and also historical languages.

In 10 generations you can have 1024 possible contributors to your DNA and this brings us back only to our ancestors in Scotland. To try to explain where your DNA came from Family Tree breaks it down into your “Origins” as defined by the current nations and “Ancient Origins” as defined by historical society groups in time. My origins show me 59% British (which includes Scotland), 27% Scandinavian, 8% Eastern Europe, and 4% Iberian Peninsula. My ancient break down is 43% Hunter-Gatherer society, 42% Farmer society, and 15% Metal Age Invaders society. The Scots: A Genetic Journey has a nice break down of the Hunter-gatherer, farmer, and metal worker migrations into Scotland and why my DNA shows these roots.

In my last post “the value of Y-DNA” I discussed “Nicholas Hays” whose ancestors genealogy research indicated they were from the Irish Clan “Hayes”. I have since found a site of an ancestor, Curtis Hays, who had DNA done. While his DNA ruled out relation to the Irish Clan he erroneously concludes he was not related to Clan Hay due to his DNA roots (Slav-Kurgen). Reading “The Scots” shows that this DNA is from areas that migrated into England and Scotland.

Further, who he settled with indicates a kith or kin relationship and this was ignored. While Nicholas Hays may not have a very similar DNA to John (or Patrick) Hays (a fact I am not sure of as I haven’t compared them) his settling with Ulster Presbyterians and migrating with them indicates a connection to Clan Hay. I am unsure of his religion but the books handed down at his passing were consistent with Presbyterianism. The saying that birds of a feather flock together is true for humans also. The common spelling of the surname adds to the evidence.

There are 11 listed Hay settlements, 4 in the southern lowlands of Scotland on the Clan map (top). As surnames were being adopted in the 16th century and commonly used often persons would use the Clan name. I have also found several references in 1700 Presbyterian books of the Hays being a part of that religion. My Hays ancestors are buried in a Presbyterian Church grave yard in Greene, TN. The “Hays” families who migrated to VA through PA then on to what is now Greene, TN and across that state and we can reasonably believe that the Ulstermen who migrated originally from the Scottish lowlands and were affiliated with a branch of the Clan Hay which are further back in time affiliated with the Earl of Errol’s Clan Hay.

When your Y-DNA is done it is matched with those similar to you and each person can list an “Earliest Known Ancestor”. I have corresponded with several persons who have claimed their ancestry back to Patrick Hays or John Hays both of whom settled on the Borden Land Grant in Virginia, Circa 1740 and the DNA indicates an 80% chance of a common ancestor in 10 generations, 90% at 12. My research ends at William Hays (8 generations from me) in Greene, TN. and although DNA indicates a relation to either John or Patrick I have not seen any record linking them to William Hays and then to me. The DNA has, however given me direction on where to look for the connection. I am hopeful at some point to get confirmation of the connection from a DNA Cousin.

One person shows the Earliest Known Ancestor as Sir John Hay of Tullibody d. 1418 and another shows William delaHaye (1120-1170) Lothian, Scotland. Again I have no evidence to connect the “Hays” line to William dela Haye. That said, about 1500 years ago “Expansion Clusters” began to form. These were due to increasing wealth and political power of a family offering social selection and breeding advantages and men having children with multiple women over many years. A man with 10 sons who then have ten sons has 100 related men affiliated with his Clan Banner. So while not proven on paper, it is quite possible.

Many people have listed John and Patrick Hays as brothers, and one source states that 7 Hays brothers (including them) arrived in a span of 6 years. It appears the father of the 7 brothers who migrated here, each having a large farm family (as subsequent sons did), created a bit of a DNA Expansion Cluster in America. It is confusing as whole church congregations migrated at the same time with entire families of Hays included with them. The other Hays from various parts of Ulster, many most likely with a common Hay ancestor in Scotland, dispersed across Northern Ireland where opportunity took them for several generations and then clustered together in America where opportunity and a shared belief system brought them together.

I suspect this is the story of the John and Patrick Hays brothers and Nicholas Hays. A Patrick Hays migrated to present day Derry, PA and owned land there. I suspect he was the advance for the rest of his brothers. Patrick and John both took land grants in 1740 in Virginia on the Borden Grant in the Shenandoah Valley which were given to families which “self imported” (paid their own fare over). Nicholas Hays entered as an indentured servant to a tailor in Philadelphia in 1745. From there he migrated to VA. While Patrick Hays returned to PA it appears his, and his brothers ancestors, migrated to Greene, TN which was on the western edge of the new nation. Nicholas was to also migrate there with his family.

The various Hays families participated in the French and Indian Wars and then the Revolutionary War on the side of the Colonials and in fact the Presbyterian Ulstermen (Scotch-Irish as they had come to be called) had few Tories in their ranks. Many were paid in land grants, often on the western front. As the country expanded they expanded also and played a part in history in the formation of Kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Texas, and all the way to California. Hopefully DNA and the historical record can help us sort out the whose who of the Hays in America.