Ancient History – americanman.org

What we know – deep dive into the DNA diaspora as of 4-25-26

What we know is our diaspora is from the Copper Age to the Hallstatt Culture in the Italian Alps 1200 BCE and then from Northern Ireland in the 1600s CE to the Americas, PA and VA, in the early 1700s. What we don’t know is how we migrated from the Italian Alps 1200 BCE into Western Europe and then on into the Scottish Lowlands. As follows is review of the current DNA (sources as of April 2026), the known roots of the PA/VA Patrick/John Hays families, and theories on the migration to Scotland. The estimated DNA location are from Globetrekker on my FTDNA Big Y site. I start at R but the line goes well back of that and includes Neanderthal DNA 300,000 YBP and originates in Africa and travels though the middle east, Iran, India, China, Indochina, north through China to eastern Mongolia arriving 30,000 BCE before turning westward across the Steppe.

My, John, and Patrick Hays Y-DNA line. R, R1, R1b, M207, M173, M343, L754, L151, P312, ZZ11, U152, L2, DF103, FGC4166, BY1020, BY3510, BY43400, BY60752, FT115175, FT116590.

(Note- I use “formed” for ease of typing to explain the chance mutations to a haplogroup that occurred on the Y-DNA of our ancestors. A haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single-nucleotide polymorphism mutation).

R formed 26,000 BCE in Mongolia. R1 formed 20,000 BCE Kazakhstan. R1b formed 17,000 BCE in Uzbekistan and R-L754 just west 17,000 BCE. R-L389 formed 15,000 BCE north of the Caspian Sea in present day Georgia. R-P297 formed 13,000 BCE just north of last. R-M269 formed 4450 BCE in present day Russia north of and between the Caspian and Black Seas. R-L23 formed 4350 BCE in western Ukraine and R-L51 formed just west of R-L23 4100 BCE in central Ukraine. We travelled west through Poland and into present day Slovakia where R-P310 formed 3400 BCE. We continued west through Austria and northwest into Germany forming R-L151 3050 BCE. We travelled directly south into the Swabian Alps and formed R-P312 2900 BCE. We made a large bend first northwest then south west forming R-ZZ11 2800 BCE near Haute-Savoi, France. We travelled south to the Mediterranean Sea and followed the coast back east to just north of Pisa, Italy where R-U152 formed 2650 BCE.

We retraced our steps back past R-ZZ11 to Basel, Switzerland where R-L2 formed 2650 BCE. We migrated south where R-DF103 formed 2550 BCE. Back north again we find R-BY1020 forming 2050 BCE south of Rhin, France. R-BY3510 formed 1800 BCE just northwest of Rhin France. Traveling north R-BY43400 formed 1500 BCE just north of Luxembourg. We went north and west where R-BY60752 formed in Flanders, Belgium 1000 BCE. The map shows migration from Calais, France to Kent, England following the east coast of England and Scotland to East Lothian, Scotland and west through Glasgow, Scotland crossing the Firth of Clyde into Northern Ireland where R-FT116590 formed 1700 CE.

While we can generally match our lineage to ancient civilizations from the Yamnaya 3300-2600 BCE covering the Pontic-Caspian Steppe including north of the Black sea to the Bell Beakers 2800-1800 BCE covering all of western Europe to the Hallstatt Culture 1200-450 BCE the record of DNA and classification of cultures is just an estimate for the times they covered. We are also hindered in our DNA evidence where large gaps occur between a change in the line which occurs with our line where the gap between our known North Ireland DNA at 1700 CE and our Flanders, Belgium DNA at 1000 BCE are 2700 years apart and thus provide no clue to the migration from Europe to Great Britain, specifically Scotland and then northern Ireland which we can surmise due to the Presbyterian Religion they brought to America consistent with the diaspora of Presbyterians and John Hays and Patrick Hays written references to leaving Northern Ireland for America. .

The Haplogroups R* , Paleolithic mammoth hunters, originated in North Asia before the last glacial maximum (29,000-19,000 YBP) and split into R1b in Western Europe, R1a in Eastern Europe, Central and South Asia and R2 into South Asia. Our R1b line is the most common Haplogroups in Western Europe (80% of the population of Ireland, Scottish Highlands, and western Wales, and the Atlantic fringe of France, and 70% of the Po Valley in North-Central Italy).

(M207, M173) M343 branched during the Paleolithic Period and into (L754, L389) P297 branched during the Neolithic Period in the Caucuses between the Black and Caspian Seas. Taurine Cattle were domesticated in the Taurus Mountains (present day Turkey) and P297 is associated with this and the domestication of horses around 4600 BCE as their use spread across the Steppe.

Our Y-DNA line branched into M-269 and nomadic herders of cattle in the Caucuses during the Copper Age. The North Caucuses and the Pontic-Caspian Steppe are classified during this time as the Proto-Indo-European homeland. The R1b, M269 spread westward (Southern Yamaha Culture) with many theories on how it subsumed the existing populations of Western Europe most likely related to superior weapons and resources (cattle, lactose tolerance, horses, and copper and bronze weapons for example.

We then migrated onto the Pontic Steppe, perhaps as part of the Dnieper-Donets Culture around 5100-4300 BCE. The Y-DNA split into the L23 Branch at the turn of the Khvalynsk and Sredny Stog Periods, 4500 BCE. 99% of Indo-European descends from this L23 subclass. L51 split from L23 in East/Southeast Europe on the Eastern and Northern Black Sea as we continued our migration west into Central Europe and by 2500 BCE were in Hungary/Austria/Bohemia. It split into P310 which further split into the Proto-Italo-Celtic-Germanic branch P312 and eventually (Z40481, ZZ11) into U152. 1300 BCE U152 migrated into Switzerland, Southern Germany and Alsace France and eventually successive migrations into the Italian Alps from the north creating a Celtic Culture (Urnfeld, Hallstatt 1200 BCE, and La Teen 450 BCE our line being the L2 clade. L2 split into DF103 and then FGC4166 about 2500-2000 BCE located in Italy, Germany, and the UK/Ireland. For further see Haplogroup R1b by Maciamo Hay.

My FTDNA Y-DNA Time Tree shows R-DF103 at 2560 BCE, FGC4166 at 2169 BCE, BY1020 at 2037 BCE, BY3510 at 1783 BCE, BY43400 at 1488 BCE, BY60752 at 981 BCE, FT115175 at 1500 CE, FT116590 at 1719 CE, FT116536 at 1763 CE, and a split off that line of FT117825 at 1943.

FT115175 shows one tested with that clade. FT116590 shows 2 tested with that clade (one being me). FT116536 shows 2 tested with that clade. FT117825 shows 2 tested with that clade.

We know that John Hays and family self imported to Augusta, VA in 1740 (with a Patrick Hays family also self importing) and that a Patrick Hays and family settled in Derry, PA in 1728 from Donegal, Ireland. Using genealogy research from various Hays ancestors we determined that Patrick Hays (PA) was related to John Hays (VA) which was confirmed by DNA which showed that Patrick Hays (as his ancestors are) was R-FT116536 and John Hays (as his ancestors are) R-FT116590. The split time estimates are plus/minus mean estimates, 68% at 150 years on date given. It is quite possible given the timelines that Patrick Hays’ father was John Hays brother as any DNA split before that would have altered John Hays DNA also.

Our earliest records of Patrick Hays show he was born 1705 in Donnegal, Ireland and came to PA with his brothers Hugh, William, and James about 1728. John Hays self imported to Rockbridge, VA with his family in 1740 from Bangor, Ireland. Both families were Presbyterians. Given the history of Scotland, England, and the settlement of Northern Ireland at that time it is reasonable to assume that the Hays migrated to N. Ireland from Scotland. Hays is a sept of Clan Hay, a lowland Clan with the Clan Chief being the Earl of Erroll. In addition to land holdings of the Earl at Aberdeen there were several cadet houses in Perth, Shetland and the Scottish Borders.

Bangor, N. Ireland is in County Down and would have been a part of the Ayrshire Scots James Hamilton and Hugh Montgomery Plantations in Counties Down and Antrim as part of a land scheme with the Irish Con O’Neill who had been imprisoned and sold them first part then all of his land holdings to obtain freedom. This part of Ireland sits a mere 12 miles from Scotland (visible on a good day) and attracted thousands of lowland Scots in 1607 and it is quite possible that John Hays ancestor was one of the original settlers there. The Plantation of the other Northern Ireland counties was commenced by King James about 1610 as a result of the success of the Hamilton-Montgomery ventures.

Patrick Hays came from Donegal, Ireland which is on the west coast of the island. Born there we can surmise that his father had settled there under King James settlement plans post 1610. The migrations from N. Ireland to America were primarily by locality and church members. While the rents for land were low at plantation due to the lands having been decimated during the 3 countries wars, by the 1700s the rents were increasing. The settlements in the Americas lacked labor and thus many were induced to make the arduous journey as the reward, depending on how the trip was paid for and the area settled, resulted eventually in the ownership of land.

The diaspora of the Hays in America to be discussed in future blogs.

What we don’t know: From Italian Alps to Scotland

As Clan Hay is an Anglo-Norman Clan, delaHaye from the French Vikings of Normandy, it has been speculated that my Hays line came to Scotland during the Norman invasion. But the Clan Hay Genetic Genealogy and DNA of the Hay, Hays, and Hayes of Scotland shows the Norman royalty line to be R1a. This is consistent as the R* line had a similar diaspora with R1a migrating more northerly across Europe and R1b migrating more southerly across Europe but with both groups intermingling as they moved about. the R1a more predominant in Scandinavian Countries. Sorry if you are a R1b and wished to find royal blood in your ancestry as recently it is a no.

It is possible my R1b line migrated to the French coast and was absorbed into the Normans Clan then migrated to Scotland with the R1a but I expect that is a lesser possibility. And early migrations into Ireland, England, Wales, and Scotland seem to be the R1b-U152, L21 branch to reach France by 2200 BCE and Britain 2100 BCE and Ireland by 2000 BCE bringing the Bronze Age to Ireland. My Celtic La Tene ancestors split from them being R1b, U152, L2. With the R1a migrating west to the north and the R1b L21 to the south it is not hard to imagine the westward migration of the R1b L2 was in between to the coast somewhere from Denmark to Germany to the Netherlands. If so my formerly Celtic Tribe now morphed into a Germanic one could easily have migrated to Northumbria with the 5th century Anglo “invasion.”

Interestingly the FTDNA line which has us in Flanders, Belgium is near the Frisians, a Germanic Tribe from the Zeeland Islands and Antwerp northeast adjoining the lands of the Saxons. Many Frisians migrated to England with the Angles, Jutes, and Saxons about 400 CE

As my focus is on the Hays American Man Branch I’ll have to live with the speculation of the ancestral travels from the Alps to Scotland unless and until another does the research. The American Branch of the Hays participation in American History providing more than enough research into questions which pop into my head in regard to my American ancestors and their what and why.

David K. Faux has presented 3 theories on the migration of the Haplogroup U152 into Britain. Hypothesis A explores introduction through Denmark and the Danish Vikings, hypothesis B investigates the Anglo-Saxon migrations in the 5th century, and hypothesis C is the Belgae Tribe as a source, the common denominator in all 3 hypothesis being migrations from the La Tene Culture.

Maciamo Hay provides a “Genetic History of the British and Irish people” here, with no definitive answer. https://www.academia.edu/10120872/Genetic_history_of_the_British_and_the_Irish_people?email_work_card=interaction-paper

With no definitive explanation we await further research and expect the lack of written records for this tie period has us relying on DNA and archeology to provide further evidence.

“Cousin” News

I received an email from K.H., wife of C.H. She advised her husbands line traced back to Joseph Hays b. 1782 in New Jersey. C.H.’s R-BY96883 closely aligned with other Hays’ in Augusta County, VA. Her question was that his DNA doesn’t seem close to mine and was wondering if we are of the same family at all?

As she provided his Y deviations I compared them with mine and the first match was R-L151. My original search revealed that R-L151 occurred years ago and shows it originating in the Corded Ware Society of Western Europe 3000-3500 BC. Subsequently I found this site, https://indo-european.eu/2021/08/r1b-rich-earliest-corded-ware-a-yamnaya-related-vector-of-indo-european-languages/ with links to the original study it is reporting on, states that R-L151 is the most common Y-lineage among early Corded Ware males. It originated west of Bohemia near the Rhine River. For anyone looking to do a deep dive into their DNA I suggest this site, https://indo-european.eu.

“Greetings Cousin, a way back one,” is how I started my reply. It was a short 4 paragraph response outlining that we shared a common grandfather, a founder of our patrilineal line, about 3000 years ago (an error as it was 3000 BC) explaining the far split in the DNA. Testing at the Big-Y level on Family Tree DNA shows 11 deviations for me based on SNP’s tested. Using an estimate life span of 50 years there are 60 generations in 3000 years. Y-DNA Haplogroups are explained here, https://www.geni.com/projects/Y-DNA-haplogroups/3717#haplogroups.

The Corded Ware society was well established across Bohemia and the East European Forest Steppe area. The Corded Ware Era was, as was the following eras after it, a very violent time. DNA indicates migrations resulted in Y-DNA dispersal into local populations and it is believed that genocide of males in a conquered tribe allowed the Y-DNA of the conquerors to spread. This continued into the middle ages. It has been proposed that the R-U152 appeared in the Hallstatt Culture in the early Iron Age around 800 BC near the Italian Alps.

K.H was unsure if Joseph Hays from New Jersey was a Presbyterian but he moved with his parents to Washington County, PA in 1792. The only evidence to link C.H. and myself is a common spelling of our last name, a 5000 year old DNA match, and the century and location of migration to the America. It is the name and locations which provide the best indications. Joseph H. was born in NJ one year before the Revolutionary War ended. It is quite possible they relocated to N.J. due to the war, either to escape warfare on the settlement fronts or because Joseph’s father was fighting on the side of the Revolutionaries and brought his wife along for safety so as to not leave her alone (common practice).

Settlement in Washington County, PA would have been dangerous as that was the front line of settlements with the Indians at the time. Western PA was ceded to the U.S. (as part of the Northwest Territory) by the British but the Iroquois Federation didn’t ceed the land until 1784. In 1790 and 1791 the new US Government tried to take control of the NW Territory but lost 2 battles with the Miami, Wabash, and Shawnee Tribes who were not party of the treaty with the Iroquois and Americans. It wasn’t until The 1794 Battle of Fallen Timbers that the Miami, etc. were forced to accept.

So Joseph’s parents may have settled on “the Irish Tract” in Roanoke with other Hays Presbyterians, or PA, and it was common for people to move back and forth between the state of PA, VA, and eastern TN based upon circumstances, If a Presbyterian Hays would have been able to read and write and generally the spelling of the name was not mixed, unless entered wrong by a clerk spelling phonetically and adding an “e” to it, Hays would be the surname of a working class Presbyterian Scot affiliated with a Lowland Clan Hay, possibly a cadet House. Now whether they came from Ulster or direct from Scotland is anybodies guess. But given the Northern Ireland had virtually whole congregations (and related Hays’) moving to the Americas on the same ship I think we have reasonable cause to believe that Joseph Hays’ parents came over from Northern Ireland.

I am honestly amazed that a very distant relative of 5000 years ago, in 3000 B.C the DNA splits, and he pops up with the same surname and experience in arriving in America. That means 2 brothers in the Corded Ware Era and then their children, and their children, and on, and on, for 60 to 100 generations travelled west in Europe on a similar path. My R-U152 (which C.H. doesn’t have) is suspected to have split at the Italian Alps with the Hallstatt Culture. As our DNA had split before it is unknown if C.H. travelled the same route (I’ll leave that for them to research, DNA information is coming online in droves these days). But the known facts are both our lines travelled from present day Poland, across the Alps, through Germany and France and over to Scotland where we both ended up affiliated with the same Clan Hay in lowland Scotland, and migrated to America in the 1700s as “Hays” settling in the same areas of the colonies.

Their line went from NJ and PA (DNA relatives in Roanoke) to Ohio (1802), Indiana, Missouri, then Oklahoma. My line went through PA, VA, TN (late 1700s), OK (late 1800s), TX, back to OK then Depression Era Grapes of Wrath to CA. And every Hays line that I have looked at arrived in America and went to the frontier (as it was known at that time), pioneer American’s. I’m glad now that I secured the AmericanMan.org web address, because every American Hays (so far as I have seen) with a DNA link, no matter how distant, is an American Man. I hope more people can put the story of their American Hays line down for future generations.

On the question, could me and C.H. be of the same family? Paternal surnames weren’t used until the 1400s and generally until the 1700s but certainly when queried what Clan ye be? we answered, “I’m with the Hay’s, the Hays spelling seeming (anecdotally) to me to be what is used by lowland working class Scots of the Clan Hay, the “Hays” surname they leaned to write in the 1500s and carried to Ulster and then America. Genealogy research says a common ancestor has to have both a surname link and a DNA link and we have that, albeit a long ago DNA link, but a link none the less. So I say, Greetings Cousins, a way back one, but cousins none the less.

Eastern American Geography Guiding the Settlement of the Hays’ in America

A map of the 18 major river basins in the lower 48 states created by Imgur user Fejetlenfej , a geographer and GIS analyst. https://imgur.com/gallery/WaEbi

To understand why people, first the natives then the Europeans, moved and settled where they did in Eastern America we need to understand a little bit about the geography of America from the Mississippis River Basin and east of the Mississippi River, especially the mountains and rivers which directed them.

The Appalachian Mountain Range is a series of Mountain Ranges, Plateaus, and Ridges which extends about 2000 miles southwest from Brunswick in Canada to East Tennessee and Northern Alabama. It is divided into 3 Regions; North (Newfoundland to The Berkshires in MA and CT), Central (Hudson River Valley to New River [Tributary to Great Kanawha] in NC, VA, WV), and Southern (Blue Ridge Mountains and Cumberland Plateau) and provided a geographical divide between the eastern seaboard and the midwest region. The Adirondack Mountains are distinct from the Catskill Mountains and are not part of the Appalachian Range although their position impacts the diaspora.

From: https://www.chegg.com/flashcards/us-capitals-states-and-physical-features-62553e73-bdc9-42dd-82a2-c283e4401605/deck

The Pleistocene Age ended about 11,700 years ago with the end of the last ice age. The ice had covered almost all of Canada and parts of the Northern U.S. The end of the ice age opened up present day Great Britain to settlement by humans and at the same time closed off the Americas from further migration of people by foot across Beringea and it formed the present oceans. In North America it resulted in the Great Lakes and the course of the Ohio River. It scoured out the Finger Lakes in NY and others in many states and determined the courses of the river systems.

The rivers and lakes were the roads of the undeveloped country and the natives had established many trails and portages which connected them. When the Europeans first arrived by ocean it was first into the bay and then up the larger Rivers, tidal straights actually, that the Europeans sailed. When Europeans first settled it was first along the bays, then the rivers, and finally they used the established trails as they moved inland. As north America had no large pack animal prior to European introduction of the horse, movement of goods was by water or foot with larger waterbodies allowing movement of larger qualities of goods. When the French, Dutch, English, and Spanish vied for control of eastern North America it was along the same paths that the natives used to wage tribal wars against one another or to trade or access hunting lands and fishing areas.

The Great Lakes (Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie, and Ontario) are a series of interconnected fresh water lakes which comprise about 84% of North Americas fresh water. Stretching from Ontario, Canada and Minnesota in the U.S. to Quebec, Canada and New York in the U.S they then connect to the Atlantic Ocean via the St. Lawrence River from lake Ontario flowing northeast into the Gulf of St. Lawrence in New Brunswick Canada. Tributaries feeding into this form the Great Lakes Basin.

From http://extension.msstate.edu/sites/default/files/publication-images/P3082/Figure_1.jpg, Mississippi State University Extension

The Atlantic Seaboard Basin consists of river watersheds; Susquehanna, Hudson, Savannah, Delaware, Yadkin, and Potomac among other smaller ones. The Susquehanna Basin starts at Otsego Lake which feeds the North Branch of the Susquehanna in NY flowing southwest and the West Branch in PA flowing east, then south and southeast through PA to MD where it empties into the Chesapeake Bay.

From https://www.weather.gov/, National Weather Service

The Delaware Basin starts on the west side of the Catskill Mountains at the East Branch in Delaware County, NY and the West Branch in Schoharie County, NY flowing southeast and combined flowing south traveling through NJ, PA (Philadelphia) and DE.

The Yadkin-Pee Dee River Basin has headwaters at the Appalachian ridge in in VA and the main branch in NC flowing east and then south through NC and SC entering the Winyuh Bay and then the Atlantic. The Savanah Basin is the Tugalo and Chatooga Rivers which form to make the Savannah River. It flows southeast and is much of the border between SC and GA draining into the Atlantic Ocean.

The Potomac Basin starts on the North Branch in MD (a small part in WV) flowing east and the South Branch flowing northeast with headwaters in VA and the River mostly in WV, when the branches combine they flow southeast into the Chesapeake Bay in MD, DC and VA. The Shenandoah River originates on 2 forks in WV and VA combining and running northeast and it is a tributary of the Potomac at Harpers Ferry, WV.

The Hudson River Basin starts in the Adirondack Mountains and flows south then east then south again. It is met just north of Troy, NY by the Mohawk River. The Schoharie Creek originates in the Catskill Mountains and flows north to feed the Mohawk River. The Mohawk River originates on the west side of the Adirondack Mountains and flows east-southeast to the Hudson River. At Troy NY the Hudson River becomes a tidal estuary flowing south to Manhattan.

Reproduced from a post on Reddit.com, unknown original source.

The Gulf of Mexico Basin is fed by the Rio Grande and Mississippi River Watershed. The Mississippi River watershed extends from the Rocky Mountains in the West to the Great Lakes Basin and all the area west of the Appalachian Mountains. It includes the Ohio River on its eastern side and the Missouri River on the west. The Ohio River starts at the confluence of the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers in Pittsburg and flows west-southwest to the Mississippi River. The Ohio River is fed by the Tennessee and Cumberland Rivers near the confluence of the Mississippi River. The Mississippi Basin covers 32 U.S. states and 2 Canadian provinces encompassing over 1.1 million square miles traveling from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico in New Orleans.

The Hays from Ulster entered PA by the Delaware Bay in PA, most likely Philadelphia. From there they settled in Derry PA. Migration continued down the Shenandoah River Valley to Roanoke, VA. Migrations of the Hays’ from there continued along the valley but was stopped by the Appalachian Ridge and the control of the land by natives. Here the migration turned into the Yadkin River Valley until such time as land began to open in TN. The Watauga settlement was started as exploration through the Cumberland Gap as did explorations of TN and KY and Hays’ would settle in both East TN, middle TN, and KY before migrating further west from there. There were Hays’ at the Cumberland Settlement, the first settlement of Nashville. My Hays line went from Augusta, VA to Greene, TN (near the Watauga Settlement and Knoxville). There was a Hays, a son in law, with Daniel Boone when he explored and settled KY.

New York State was a central point in the navigation of the east. The Hudson River was tidal to North of Albany and thus navigable by larger ships and could be followed further north, then overland to Lake George north to portage to Lake Champlain and again on foot to access the St. Lawrence River and present day Quebec and Montreal. To travel west from Albany one would overland to bypass the Cohoes Falls to present day Schenectady and access the Mohawk River which provided access west of the Appalachian Range. A short portage to to Oneida Lake, Oneida River and the Oswego River brings one to Lake Ontario and access to inland America on the lakes.

From https://geology.com/state-map/maps/new-york-rivers-map.gif

The Schoharie Creek is a tributary to the Mohawk River with headwaters in the Catskill Mountains flowing north. This provides access to the Delaware River headwaters as both waters are in Schoharie County in NY. Or one could travel further west to the headwaters of the Susquehanna River. Inversely, from Chesapeake Bay or Delaware Bay one could follow that river to the Schoharie Creek, the Mohawk River, and the Oneida Lake route to the Great Lakes.

The Ohio River with headwaters in western PA, and a short distance from Lake Erie, flows through the eastern U.S. meeting the Mississippi River North of TN. The Cumberland River flows from KY into middle TN (Nashville) turning northwest into KY to meet the Ohio River upstream of the confluence with the Mississippi River. The Tennessee River flows through Eastern TN (Knoxville) southwest into northern Alabama then northeast back into western TN then KY meeting the Ohio River in between the Cumberland River and the Mississippi River. The Watauga River is a tributary to the South Holiston River and the Tennessee River entering near Knoxville. All these rivers are relevant as we look at the Hays diaspora across America.

from https://www.tennesseeriverkeeper.org/rivermaps

Note: All maps are posted for non commercial educational purposes under the Fair Use Doctrine and may not be reproduced from this site for other than fair use without the permission of the original copywrite holders. Source link provided in captions.

Cousins updates (2) and an unrelated to (Patrick Hays-PA but with Hays ancestors) contact

1. Hey Bro, we’re cousins.

A close family friend (so close we call each other Brother) contacted me with the news that we are cousins (by marriage). It turns out his wife was doing genealogical research and was reviewing 5th to 8th cousins on Ancestry.com when she came across my photo (Ancestry offers autosomal DNA and matches members with their possible cousins). We shared a 4th Great Grandfather on my fathers maternal line, Joseph Price 1769-1834. I’m sure I’ll be introduced as “BroCus” at any gatherings as an opening to discussing genealogy research in the family. It’s a small world after all.

This got me to thinking about how American was I? So I went back to my own family tree using the maternal name that married into my Hays line following their paternal lines. Peoples trees on Ancestry trace my Grandmothers Price line back to Daniel Price born 1725 in Henrico, VA. Price is a welsh name and is the 91st most common name (out of 100) in the US (2020). Great Grandmother Mary Ellen Wilcox married Alexander Hays in TX and her line traces back to George Wilcox born 1718 in VA. Wilcox is Scottish or English in origin, from medieval English. By the time America was settled most surnames had been Anglicised (even Irish and Scottish Gaelic names).

My 2nd Great Grandmother Harriet Atwood Walker married William A. Hays in Greene, TN and her line traces back to Thomas Walker born 1650 in Westmoreland, VA. Walker, like Wilcox is the Anglicised form from Scotland or England. 3rd Great Grandmother Sarah W. Rodgers (b. 1808) married George Hays in Greene, TN and her line goes back to one generation to Robert Rodgers with no information available. Rodgers is also Anglicised English or Scottish, this spelling variation more common in Scotland. 4th Great Grandmother Abigail Cravens married William Hays in either Rockbridge, VA or Greene, TN. It traces back to Robert Cravens born 1733 in Lewes, Sussex Co., DE. Cravens is of English origin. From William A. Hays back my Hays line were Presbyterian and appear to be active in church so it is safe to assume the spouses were also Presbyterian and most likely their families Presbyterian migrants from Ulster, Scotland, or England settling in proximity to my hays line (eventually).

You can follow our diaspora of Hays pioneers as Ancestry has an interactive map based on the census which shows in 1840 NY, PA, OH, and TN led the country with between 114-226 Hays family names with OH 1st which had 226 Hays’ which was 14% of us in the US. The name shows in all the settled areas of the U.S. that time. By 1920 PA, OH, IN, IL, MO, KY, TN, GA, AL, MS, AR, OK, and TX all had between 301-600 Hays families but every state in the U.S. had Hays families in it. There were 600 Hays families in #1 KY, 7% of all the recorded Hays in the country. States around this cluster and CA, OR, and WA came in second 101-300, the midwest and New England coming in last at 1-100. The 2010 census has “Hays” name ranked at 1021 with 34,191 records (Smith, Johnson, Williams, Jones, and Brown are the top 5) and out of each 100,000 people we are 11.59% of the population. Hayes is in 127th place and Hay ranks 2005 and it is unknown how many of these are Ulster Scot Presbyterian with a changed spelling (See Hays spellings).

Fair use from Ancestry.com, Hays diaspora 1840 in the U.S.A.

It was my father who broke the line of Hays men marrying women with pre-Revolutionary War Colonial roots. But this was understandable as it was his generation which finalized the Hays’ generational moves west when he landed in CA with the other “Oakies” in the 1930’s. Like many other Hays’ he ran out of land to continue migrating west. (although service in the Pacific theatre in WWII, Korea [war and after], and Vietnam leave the possibility the DNA continued to migrate west?). Military service brought him back east to NY where he married my mother, a 3rd generation German immigrant to this state on her paternal line, 2nd on her maternal her mother arriving as a baby, settling in VT and upstate NY. Some of his children and grand children stayed in NY and as is the custom in America now some moved about the country following adventure, a spouse, or work.

Note on name as ancestry alone. The 2010 census shows about 70% of U.S.A. “Hayes” identifying as White – non hispanic, 85% of Hay, and 91% of Hays ruling out many as immigrants from Scotland to Ulster to America excepting acknowledged intermarriage. Also the spelling of Hays was historically phonetic, especially in those who could not write (pre-Presbyterian education in the peasant class in Great Britain prior to 1600 and in rural America west of the Mississippi – both my Grandfather and Great Grandfather for example) and so they made their mark and another spelled based upon how it sounded. proper genealogy research requires name matching (including similar spelling), DNA, religion, and other historical records matching. Don’t cheap out, do the research.

2. Chickasaw Nation

RS contacted me after finding the AmericanMan web site. His mother was a Hays and he traced her line back to Patrick Hays in PA and he’s actually been to the gravesite in Derry, PA (on my bucket list). He’s a citizen of the Chickasaw Nation (fathers side) and also a member of the Love County Historical Society and so I got a lot of information on Burneyville, Love, OK. which is where my Great Grandfather, Robert Alexander Hays migrated to with his wife Mary. Robert Alexander is buried in the Burneyville Cemetery. I have no information on why they migrated to Chickasaw Territory to farm. The 1900 census shows Township 7, Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory with Mary as the head of household with 8 children, widowed the year prior. I addressed the question of Indian ancestry but will need to do site investigations to see why the couple, he from Green, TN and she from Equality, Miller, MO. and who were married in TX, settled in OK.

The 1910 census shows Mary as head of household with my Grandfather, Thomas Jefferson Hays 18, and 3 younger sisters in Hickory, Love, OK. By 1920 my Grandfather was listed as head of household, married with a one year old child and Mary and his sister, Lula R. 24 residing in Justice Precinct 5 Cooke, TX. Thomas J. had children born in order; Illinois Bend, Montague, TX; Plainview , Hale, TX, Illinois Bend, Montague, TX; Plainview, Hale, TX; and Cyril, OK, the last being my father who was a baby when his father died. The 1930 census shows my fathers family in Olton, Lamb, TX and in 1940 he was in Plainview, TX again but some time in between he lived with his uncle Jess Price in Chandler, Commanche, OK.

RS advised that the Burneyville Cemetery is quite large but Burneyville itself is almost a ghost town. The Love County Historical Society is in the Pioneer Museum in Marietta, OK (Love County seat). It’s run by volunteers so hopefully it’s still open when the lockdowns are lifted as I would greatly like to visit it and do research. His parents met in TX so the connection of Hays to Burneyville was of interest to him. I’ll check and see if he has his Hays family tree and if he’ll share it and approves its posting on this site.

Calgary, Canada

MT in Calgary, Canada contacted me after reviewing AmericanMan.org. He’s an R1a (our Hays are R1B) but he has many Hays in his lineage and was wondering if I came across any R1a Hays’ in my searches for the name which I haven’t. R1 split into R1a and R1b around the last ice age. My Hays line is R1b1a2 with the R-M269 marker which is the most common marker from Europe and dominated in the Yamnaya Culture 3500 BCE. It also includes R-M343 which migrated from Kazakstan across Unkraine, Romania, the Italian Alps and into France. The R1 (R-M420) migrated from Kazakstan into Russia and then Belarus. The Hay and Hayes DNA Projects reveals not only R1’s with a Hay derived name but many others, although the bulk of Hays’, over 75% of the 275 in the Hay project, appear to be R1b and most of them with the R-M269 marker.

Note: We concurred that the education of people in North America is greatly lacking. Not only are American’s taught virtually NOTHING about Canadian History and Canadians taught virtually NOTHING about U.S History, neither country properly teaches their own history which we discovered in our genealogy research. I’ll add to this the history of Mexico and the U.S. I suggest everyone get on internetrchive.com and download history books, now public domain and many digitalized or available for a digitalized free borrow from a library from written in the time you are researching or shortly thereafter. And remember to send them a tax deductible donation as they are in INVALUABLE resource to truth and history.

Hays Ancestors: Mans east and west diaspora and the Hays migration to Scotland.

Although he didn’t know it, DNA Adam in Africa 60,000 years ago was a Hays. He’s actually related to the vast majority of the people alive today so he has a pretty long list of surnames. They were stone age hunter-gatherers when 60,000 years ago a DNA Adam son, a Hays male ancestor, started to migrate north out of Africa. 50,000 years ago the Hays cousins, the C Haplogroup, went west out of Africa over the tip of India and up the Asian coast to North America, the first settlers to that continent. When the Hays sons reached Asia 35,000 years ago, around present day Uzbekistan, cousins in Haplogroup Q went west northwest while the Hays, in the R Haplogroup, continued north. Both The Hays R Haplogroup and cousins Q Haplogroup were still hunter-gatherer societies, dependent on climate and the movement of large game animals, about 11,000 years ago when Q went into North America at present day Alaska .

The Hays R Haplogroup first split into R1 and R2 (some estimate about 25,000 years ago) and then the R1 split into R1a and R1b (some estimate about 18,500 years ago), with R1b being my (and many others) Hays line. The R1b Hays continued to migrate west into Europe. The climate at the time was much cooler than now due to the last Ice Age with glaciers that grew and receded back and forth from 110,000 to 12,500 years ago. In Scotland 24,000 years ago the ice was over a mile thick and Britain was connected to mainland Europe due to reduced sea levels from the glacier and migrations of people by foot in and out and in could occur. Reduced sea levels due to glaciation opened up the Bering Land Bridge, Beringia, between present day Siberia and Alaska and about 12,000 to 15,000 years ago people began to migrate in and out of North America.

Glaciers and climate continued to impact movement of people. The Q Haplogroup crossed into North America and continued to migrate south and east settling North and South America. The Hays R1b Haplogroup continued further west into Europe. As warming occurred 12,000 years ago the glaciers began to melt and recede and ocean levels began to rise. By 6000 years ago the British Isles were separate from mainland Europe by the English Channel and Beringia was under water.

The flooding of Beringia separated North America from Asia and migrations into North America stopped, but the Q Haplogroup continued their migration south and east across 2 continents. 90% of American Indians carry the Q Haplogroup. As evidence of the America’s being separated from Asia and Europe, canines were domesticated from grey wolves by the hunter-gatherers some 14,000 years ago. Travelers over Beringia brought dogs to North America and DNA studies have shown they were related to dogs in Siberia, but were distinct from European dog lines. Among other herd animals, ancient horses originally from North America died out in North America but they continued in Asia. North and South American civilizations remained isolated from the civilizations of Eurasia and did not benefit from any advances in Eurasia culture and developed on their own.

About 9000 years ago farming was developed in the fertile crescent in Mesopotamia (present day middle east). Cereal crops (wheat and barley), lentils, peas and chickpeas were cultivated for food and flax was grown for oil. Goats and sheep were domesticated as were chickens and pigs in China and cattle in the Near East. Farming and pastoralism created a more sedentary lifestyle but successive generations would require more land in temperate zones to farm and graze on. Stone age tools were improved on and pottery making developed to store grains and seeds.

Farming increased birth rates as children were weaned earlier onto a grain diet (mush). Villages and town centers (tribes and clans) would develop for social gathering, government, and religious activities and as a gathering point for common defense against raiding. Increased populations increased the need for more land to farm and thus encouraged migration. Genetic diversity within a village would be maintained by marriages between two villages. This would build alliances and help prevent tribal and regional conflict. Farming would migrate west into Europe, just as the R1b Haplogroup and the Hays did.

About 6000 years ago (4000 BCE) horses were domesticated on the Western Asian Steppes. Mankind emerged from the Stone Age and into the Bronze Age about 3000 BCE. Wheeled vehicles, including war chariots, and metal weapons and tools were developed (the Yamnaya Culture). Advances in the tools of war and the tools of agriculture occurred as societies moved from the Bronze Age into the Iron Age. These “Metal Age Invaders” moved into Europe and mixed with the European Farming Cultures. Haplogroup R1b and subclade M269 were common in all of western Europe with 110 million men carrying the M269 marker today.

Allistair Moffat in “The Scots: A Genetic Journey” explains that the migration of the M269 subclade corresponds to the advancement of farming. Seeds of founder crops, domesticated animals in tow, and farming knowledge being necessary for the advancement of farming, he believes that the advance of farming was concurrent with the migration of men and not only the migration of knowledge by itself. He believes that the explosion of the M269 marker which coincides with the development of farming across Europe was by those who moved and took a local as a wife. The larger farm families and the need for new lands for sons to farm would seem to support this theory.

About 800 BCE the Hays and the R1b Haplogroup, M269 subclade would be in the Italian Alps (part of the Halstatt Culture 800-450 BCE) with migration continuing into central and western Europe (the La Tene Culture 450-1 BCE). The Iron Age started about 1200 BCE and in Europe about 700 BCE. Iron improved farm implements greatly. The development of steel from iron as we approached the Common Era (CE) greatly improved war implements, both weapons and defensive armor and shields.

Halstatt Culture and La Tene Culture – Source Wikipedia.org used under fair use doctrine.

The Halstatt Culture were Celtic, speaking a Proto-Celtic language, and they had no written records. They had a societal hierarchy of slaves, soldiers, farmers, and craftsmen under a Chieftain who ruled from fortifications on top of a mound. There was a hierarchy of Chiefs and Kings above them. Horses, wagons and chariots were used in war with soldiers armed with sword, spear, and wearing body armor. Iron ploughs improved agricultural production and the tribes traded goods as far away as Greece and China. The Halstatt Culture evolved into the La Tene Culture.

The Hays line continued their migration west into Normandy and from there came into Scotland with the Norman Conquest. The M269 subclade occurs in 70% of Scottish Men, including the Hays. For 800 years the Hays stayed in the Scottish Lowlands. Persecution for their Presbyterian Religion and their Scottish Ancestry fostered one final move westward in the 1600’s into Northern Ireland for about 2 generations. Here they would again suffer persecution and want of necessities and so they looked to again migrate west over the Atlantic Ocean, a risky adventure, but one which might provide liberty of conscious and opportunity for them and their children.

Little did they know that the travel west to America would put them face to face with the Haplogroup Q cousins that decided east over west 35,000 years ago. And that the landing on the East coast of North America was only the beginning of another migration west, this one across America, pioneers, farmers, and soldiers, on a 200 year journey which won’t end until the Pacific Ocean is reached.

Ancient Origins from DNA

Being born in America we tend to think of ourselves as immigrants and wonder where did we come from usually following our surname back to the country which preceded our arrival in America. In my case the name “Hays” (and my research around it) reveals that my ancestors came to America from the Plantations of Northern Ireland having settled there, most likely, from the Scottish Lowlands. And while we think of Scotland as a country of similar individuals, history and DNA research reveals that many different peoples migrated to and settled in Scotland before it was Scotland as we know it today.

I highly recommend the book “The Scots: A Genetic Journey” by Alistair Moffat. He tells of the ancient history of Scotland including prehistoric and early historic times in an easy to read format which includes the most recent DNA findings regarding the migrations of people. He notes, “Every Scot is an immigrant. Until 9000 BC Scotland was empty of people and animals.” He then weaves together the story of Scotland, its people, languages, customs and culture, and how it all came together to form Scotland and the Scottish People.

Both ancestry.com and FamilyTreeDNA.com give me a geographic history of my atDNA with Family Tree even breaking my DNA down into my ancient European origins. A comparison of the geographic estimates reveals interesting results. Ancestry has me 46% England & Wales, 27% Germanic Europe, 22% Sweden, 3% Ireland-Scotland, and 2% Norway. Family Tree has me 59% British Isles, 27% Scandinavia, 8% East Europe, 4% Iberian Peninsula, and 2% Norway. The estimates are arrived by comparing my DNA to a reference sample (Ancestry advises their reference currently at 40,000 samples) so even though my DNA stays the same as more references samples are added regions are bound to be broken down into sub regions in the future providing more accurate information for the individual.

My ancient European origins estimate on Family Tree is based on DNA comparisons to those who migrated into what we know today as Europe. Family Tree DNA shows me 43% from Hunter-Gatherers, 42% from Farmers, 15% from Metal Age Invaders, and 0% non-European. Hunter-Gatherers migrated into Europe about 45,000 years ago following large herd animals as glaciers increased and decreased . Farmers migrated into Europe about 8000 years ago during the Neolithic (new stone age) Era cultivating in temperate areas. The farmers differed from the Hunter-Gatherers as they had a salivary gene which may have helped them break down starches more efficiently. The Metal Age Invaders arrived in the Bronze Age (3000-1000 BCE) and used copper, bronze, and tin tools and arrived as nomadic herders using horses and wheeled vehicles. The Metal Age Invaders originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black Sea and are closely related to the Yamnaya Culture. They brought with them a tolerance for lactose and the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1B with the M269 subclass which mixed with the local population and is now dominate in Western Europe today.

The Y-DNA follows the paternal line back through time and the mtDNA follows the maternal line back in time. Family Tree shows a migration map so my mtDNA haplogroup of H1C1 is a sub group of the H migration which after the last ice age the “H” maternal line spread across Europe and 10,000 years ago migrated into Western Europe accounting for about 30% of the population. My R-BY3510 haplogroup is a subgroup of R-U152, a sub of R-M269 and a sub of R-M343 under the R1b haplogroup. That migration map shows that 30,000 years ago the R1 group in the Eurasian Steppes split with R1a landing in Eastern Europe 10,000 years ago and R1b journeyed into Western Europe is successive waves.

Most mtDNA traces back to “Mitochondrial Eve” in East Africa 120,000 years ago and most yDNA traces back to a “yDNA Adam” in East Africa 60,000 years ago. The H maternal line migrated from Africa north to the area of the Black Sea and then west into Europe 10,000 years ago. The The R paternal line migrated north across the Middle East into Eurasia on the east side of the Caspian Sea turning west traveling north of the Black Sea into Europe 10,000 years ago. At what point from there did my ancestors first enter Scotland? I go to “The Scots” to fill in the story of how it was settled and can only guess at my ancestors particular circumstance.

America when my ancestors arrived in the 1730’s

Given the DNA I can pick a point in time and call myself by a tribal name of the various Celtic, Germanic, and other tribes which made up my ancestors DNA in Scotland. My Hays ancestors entered America in the 1730’s arriving most likely in Philadelphia with the other Scotsmen of Northern Ireland as they called themselves in a mass exodus with entire families and communities traveling together settling in Pennsylvania and Virginia and now almost 300 years in America, the continuation of our westward migration which started in Western Europe 10,000 years ago into Scotland and then Northern Ireland. It is unknown how many generations were spent in Northern Ireland but it is sure that they were not Irishmen as they considered themselves Scots with little, if any, intermarriage outside their Presbyterian Scot community. And so given that I’ll call myself a “Scottish American” with an “Ulsterman” footnote.