Hays PA and VA 1700s DNA – What We Know

The Big Y Test Reveals a common Hays ancestor in 1550 CE for Patrick Hays (1720s PA) and John Hays (1740s VA) and a distinct DNA line for Patrick Hays (PA).

Four of us Ulster Scot Hays whose ancestors migrated to the America’s in the early 1700s have completed the Big Y 700 at Family Tree DNA and have family trees going back to either Patrick Hays settling in Derry, PA 1728 or John Hays settling in Augusta, VA in 1740. DNA indicates that both have a common ancestry from Ulster, Ireland. With a mutation from a common ancestor in 1550 and a second mutation in 1750. Persons with the “Hays” surname and lacking recorded evidence of ancestry may be able to use the Big Y DNA test to identify their line back to Scotland through Northern Ireland and the pioneer settlers in PA and VA in America in the 1720s and 1740s respectively.

If I’m reading this correctly, our common ancestor is R-FT115175. He was in 1550 CE (1296-1706) the parent group from which R-FT115690 mutated from. R-FT115690 is the parent of R-FT116536 which mutated in 1750 CE (1657-1857).  We have 2 persons with R-FT116536 and they trace to Patrick Hays 1705-1790 in PA. We have 2 persons with R-FT116590 who trace their ancestry (highly suspected) to John Hays 1674-1750 in VA. Thus any person doing research on their Hays line who matches an ancestor in the line of the 4 listed can be reasonably certain (barring any errors in the genealogy trees) that they are from the Patrick Hays or John Hays lines. The R-FT116590 shows relations to John Hays from the mutation in 1550 which may be a relative 175 years before his birth. The R-FT116536 mutation may be Patrick Hays himself or his father or grandfather and as such relation may be through his brothers, or an unknown cousin, who migrated with him in the early 1700s.

R-FT116590 and R-FT116536 family trees: (As reported by the individuals, Patrick or John into the 1800s).

  1. R-FT116536 Patrick Hays 1705-1790, Samuel Hays ? Dauphin County, PA – 1805 Warren, Kentucky, William Hays 10 Mar 1761 Augusta, VA – 25 Sep 1851 Warren Kentucky, Daniel Hays 1799 ? – 1862 Warren, KY.
  2. R-FT116536 Patrick Hays 1705-1790, Samuel Hays 1741 Dauphin County, PA  1805 Bowling Green, KY, James Hays 1758 Augusta, VA  (1783 lived in Davidson, TN) – 1830 Warren County, KY, John Hays 1785 Lincoln County, KY – ?, James Samuel Hays 1822 Bowling Green, KY – 1860 Marlin, TX.
  3. R-FT116590 John Hays (unconfirmed) 1720 Bangor, Ireland – ? Augusta, VA, Unknown Hays, William Hays 1753 VA – 1831 Wythe, VA,  Jacob Hays 1785 Rich Valley, Montgomery, VA – 1858 Brunswick, MO
  4. R-FT116590 (me) John Hays 1674-1750, James Hays unk (Ulster)-unk, James Hays unk-unk, William Hays 3 Mar 1773 Rockbridge, VA – 10 Sep 1857 Greene, TN, George Hays 1802 Blue Springs, Greene, TN – 1866 Blue Springs, Greene, TN, William A. Hays 1835 Clear Creek, Greene, TN – 1911 Cedar Lane, Greene, TN. 

At Family Tree DNA, the 67 Marker YDNA has 2 persons with a genetic distance of 3 steps from me, one traced back to Patrick Hays and one traced back to John Hays. FTDNA advises that at 111 markers 0 steps removed is accurate to 6 generations, 1 step is 9 generations, and 2 steps are 11 generations. At 111 there are 2 persons 5 steps removed with 1 tracing to John Hays and 1 tracing to Patrick Hays and one 6 steps removed tracing to Patrick Hays. The 67 and 37 marker tests show the Y-DNA Haplogroup R-M269 which mutated 4000 years ago (with 14 mutations to R-FT115175) thus any Y-DNA test below the Big-Y 700 will not provide any help in determining which Hays line you came from given he common ancestor R-FT115175 in 1550 Scotland and the common ancestor branches from R-FT116590 in late 1600-early 1700s Ulster Ireland.

These Hays arrived, most likely, in Philadelphia settled on the edge of the European settlements between existing original settlers and the natives (which we will discuss further in later blogs). There were scant written records when the Hays arrived in America and the European settlements didn’t venture far inland from the coastal settlements. As an example Patrick Hays settlement in Dauphin County in 1728 was well beyond the “Walking Purchase” of land from the Lenape (Delaware) Indians in 1737. The settlement in the Shenandoah River Valley of Virginia of John Hays in the 1740s likewise was intended to provide a buffer between the original settlers in Jamestown and the natives, luckily recorded in the Lyman Chalkley “Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement of Virginia.”

By 1700 the powerful Iroquois Federation (originally 5 tribes: Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca adding a 6th, the Tuscarora in 1722) controlled most of present day NY, PA, VA and the lands west to the Ohio River Valley and beyond (control claimed by other tribes also).  The 1722 Treaty of Albany (NY) was supposed to stop settlement beyond the Blue Ridge Mountains at the Great Warriors Path (southeast of the Appalachian Mountains) but the number of settlers outpaced available land and settlement continued west in PA and then southwest following the Shenandoah Valley.  In 1742 a party of Onondaga and Oneida Indians skirmished with the Augusta, VA Militia and in 1744 at the Treaty of Lancaster the Iroquois sold the Shenandoah Valley which increased settlements and development of the Great Wagon Road (former Great Warriors Path) which stretched from Philadelphia to Gettysburg then southwest to Roanoke and then south into the Piedmont of North Carolina and continuing through South Carolina ending at Augusta, GA on the Savannah River.     

The Biographical Encyclopedia of Dauphin County PA states that Patrick Hays was born in Donegal, Ireland in 1705 and arrived in PA settling in Dauphin County, Derry, PA in 1728 with his brothers, Hugh, William, and James. Patrick had 5 sons (David, Robert, William, Samuel, and Patrick). James is presumed dead by 1751 and brother Hugh and William travel to Virginia in the early 1750s with Hugh returning to PA until his death with only a daughter recorded. Patricks 2 sons, William (b. 1737) and Samuel (b. 1741) also travel to Virginia.

John Hays and Patrick Hays (VA) self imported to Orange County, Virginia in 1740 from Northern Ireland via Philadelphia (unknown arrival year). As self importers they were entitled to settle land which was awarded in two grants, one the Beverly Grant and the other the Borden Grant (which we will explore in depth in a future blog).  Patrick settled with his wife Frances and children Joan, William, Margaret, Catherine, and Ruth. John’s wife was Rebecca with children Charles, Andrew, Barbara, Joan, and Robert.

Patrick’s (PA) brothers Hugh and William travelled to Virginia in the 1750s and his sons William (1737) married (1767 ) Jean Taylor and Samuel (1741) married unknown and removed to Virginia also. It is possible they continued down the road into North Carolina also given the Indian hostilities occurring at the time.  The French and Indian War, 1754-1763 caused much movement between Virginia, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina which ended with the treaty of Paris with England controlling the Ohio Country. In 1763 a Royal Proclamation was issued preventing settlement past the Appalachian Mountains to try to prevent conflict with the Indians.

Thus, due to a hostile frontier, and until the end of the Revolutionary War 1775-1873, settlement was restricted and movement amongst the Hays ancestors of Patrick and John Hays occurred mostly in Pennsylvania, Virginia, and North Carolina with many moving back and forth as hostilities moved about. Excursions into Kentucky began with Daniel Boone and his son in law Capt. William B. Hays cutting the Wilderness Road through the Cumberland Gap and the Wautauga Settlement on leased land from the Cherokee in East Tennessee but widespread settlement wasn’t to occur until the end of the war.  Virginia (who controlled Kentucky) ceded their wilderness land to the Federal Government in 1783 and North Carolina (which controlled Tennessee) started land grants and then ceded their wilderness lands to the Federal Government in 1790.  Many of our Hays ancestors continued their pioneering with land grants in TN and KY.

Scotland 1600 – Life in the Lowlands

I must admit that when I first learned of my “Hays” connection to Clan Hay and the Earl of Errol that I bought highland music CD’s (search CD on the internet kids), including some in Gaelic, and even ordered up a complete Prince Charlie with the intent to attend the Scottish Highland games in my area as I was “Scottish”.  Alas I was to learn that if I transported back in time and showed up with my ancestors in 1500’s Scotland wearing a Kilt and speaking Gaelic I would certainly be killed as a raider from the north looking to steal cattle. My ancestor then most likely spoke Scots and dressed in wool or animal skin clothing. 

I had no sense of my ancestry beyond my father, a depression era dust bowl “Okie” who migrated to California, as in the Grapes of Wrath diaspora, and it was only when I did a deep dive into my genealogy (including DNA) that I learned of my American Pioneer Ancestors, arriving in this new world from the lowlands of Scotland with a couple or more generation stop in Northern Ireland. While I have not researched the line beyond the 1700s in America there are general circumstances applied to all the migrators of that era and location which tell us why they came to America.

It has been speculated, based upon DNA, that my ancestry came to Scotland with the Norman invasion and there intermingled with the Anglo-Saxons, most likely in Bernicia which was the northern part of Northumbria which is present day southeast Scotland (south of Edinburg).  There were multiple cadet houses and Hay holdings throughout Scotland and the specific area my line is from has not been determined.  Additionally after hundreds of years in Scotland we migrated to Ulster with other Presbyterians and the formation of the plantations in Northern Ireland in the 1600s at some point.  

So the questions that comes to my mind is why did my ancestors migrate from Scotland to Northern Ireland in the 1600s and then on to America in the early 1700s?  Economic reasons? Religious persecution?  War or famine?  What was their life like and how did they live?  Most historical writings are based upon the aristocracy or church with only passing mention of the daily lives of the common man.  I did find one specific source, “The Scotch-Irish: A Social History” by James G. Leyburn, University of North Carolina Press, 1962.  My writings here are based greatly on that and also by multiple readings of other works, although I found this one, unlike many which focus on the ruling establishment and major historical events, to speak to the every day life and times of the common man of which my ancestors came from.  It can be borrowed from the libraries at archive.org at https://archive.org/details/scotchirishsocia0000leyb/page/n5/mode/2up.  

The Scotch-Irish: A Social History by James G. Leyburn

Given my ancestors came to America as farmers I highly suspected that they were farmers in Ulster and Scotland, part of the peasant class.  While the term peasant is often given a negative connotation it actually means a tiller of the soil, or a farmer (not to be confused with serf which was an economic slave tied to a feudal landowner).  While the social hierarchy was Lords (Nobility with title), Gentry and Lairds (landowners) and Burghers (well off Merchants), then tenants (peasants) each had a responsibility to the others in the feudal system. The Lord was expected to provide protection for all those under him and in return they were bound to provide military service to the nobleman. The tenant paid rent to the Laird (or the Lords agent) and was given a lease on specific lands.  In daily life and business, and especially when on a campaign, they would have been in close contact with each other.

Prior to the reformation few could read or write and this included most nobles.  The only  education was in schools taught in Latin which was to prepare them for a life as Clergy in the Catholic Church. After the Reformation Noble, Gentry, and Peasant alike sent their children to the same Presbyterian School, if available, and it was based upon merit which should continue on to University.  This common purpose to advance a common religion would have brought the adherents even closer regardless of class.  Even though there were distinct classes they interacted freely, often, and without airs. 

As an example of the unity, “An Old Kirk Chronicle: being a history of Auldhame, Tyninghame, and Whitekirk in East Lothian by Rev. P. Lately Waddell, B.D., Minister of the united parish; author of “the Gospel of the Kingdom” published by William Blackwood and Sons, Edinburg and London, MDCCXCIII [(M=1000+D=500+CC=200=1700+(XC=100-10=90)+III=3 which is 1793 if my Roman math and internet search is correct] pg. 107 states;

“ Mariche 18, 1638.  the said day the minister product the Covenant to the session, and red the same before them. … All the men of the parish, gentle, for the moment solemnized and brought face to face with ‘the great name of the Lord their God,’ write their names below the glowing words,…  Lauders and Cunninghames, Jacksons and Ewarts, Kers and Hays, for one day at least lifted above their common toil and out of their jealousies and strife, exalted with a new enthusiasm and bound together by the sacred pledge.”     

While not all Hays were covenanters most at that period i suspect were Presbyterian, the official religion of Scotland, as were their Lords and Lairds and as such a sense of community was strengthened.  

That said, the Tenant Farmers were free to move about as leases expired and changed and they were not bound to a specific Lord as they are in a Clan or strict Feudal System (serf)  except when on his holdings.  Shortages of labor, especially for labor of the correct religion or loyalty allowed the Peasant some flexibility in moving about as leases expired, although kith and kin still provided the best opportunity for the best lease.  Scotland of pre 1600 was mostly isolated from England and France in markets and trade and any agricultural advancements were isolated from them also.  Agricultural production was low, at barely above the subsistence level and as such no industry or trade centers formed of any size and the Burghs in Scotland, unlike the Boroughs in England, traded mostly locally produced goods.

The tenants were broken down into the Kindly (lands to one tenant) or Joint Tenant which was multiple families together forming a Plowgate.  A Plowgate was made up of at least 8 oxen which were needed to pull a single plow.  Kindly and Joint Tenants would rent to a Subtenant who was given a “tack”, a small piece of land on which to place a shack and a garden.  Lairds would usually rent to relatives thus preserving the best parcels for the extended family.  Leases were broken into an infield and outfield with the infield broken into separate strips, a “run-rig” leased by lot every few years the payment a percentage of the crops and eggs and fowl to the big house.  The outfield, usually about six times larger than the infield, was similarly divided.  The frequent changing of lands provided no incentives to improve it.

Oats and Barley were the staples and the outfield would be planted with oats until the soil was poor and then weeds would overcome the field and it would be used for grazing of cattle.  There were no fences or stone walls dividing the land and as such cattle and horses grazing crops was a problem and cause for conflict among neighbors.  Oat cakes were the common staple, a mixture of oats and water fried on a flat skillet and oatmeal, greens, and homemade beer and ale rounded out the diet with a piece of mutton or other meat occasionally if an animal died. 

Having been almost continually at war with England, and in between suffering raiding by opposing Scottish Feudal Estates, English Estates to the south and Highland Clans to the north and west, the lowlands of Scotland were decimated.  There existed nary a tree, the bogs and wetlands were undrained due to no knowledge of current agricultural practices.  There were no fences or stone walls defining holdings and cattle wandered with trespass upon others holdings and plantings. 

People wore animal skins and wool clothes and a cap, many going barefoot or wearing rudimentary leather shoes but most wearing wool clothing.  Huts were built of stone with no mortar so mud and straw was stuffed into the cracks against the cold. They had thatched roofs with a hole in the center to allow smoke from the cook fire to escape.  They had earthen floors, rocks for chairs, and people slept on one side of the hut on thatch or heather beds on the ground and the animals were tethered on the other side of the hut. While rudimentary they could easily be rebuilt after being destroyed during a raid or war.  Personal cleanliness was not yet a virtue and it was considered bad luck to clean a butter churn so hair, human or animal, was common in the butter.   Vermin were common, the huts dirty and stunk, breeding a lot of illness.  

Plows were made of wood and it took 8-12 animals to pull it and required the manpower of all available men within the plow gate. The plow made a shallow rut and not a furrow and they could plow about 1/2 an acre a day.  They used straw harnesses and rope made from hair, harrows were made of wood or even branches tied together.  Crop production was at the mercy of drought, heavy rains, flood, poor soils, and frosts in addition to loss from conflicts.  Ill fed milk cows produced only 2 pints a day and when winter supplies ran low they would bleed the cows to make blood-meal.  In spring everyone participated in “the lifting” as weak undernourished cows and horses had to be lifted onto their feet to get to the grazing fields.

They lived at, or barely above, a subsistence level so in most years there was enough to eat and a small excess to trade which would be at the fair in the burgh.  The entire family would attend to escape the day to day drudgery of work. Farmers sold wool, cattle, and horses.  Merchants sold the wares of tinsmiths, coopers, shoemakers, and haberdashers (clothing and sewing supplies).  Salt was a required commodity for preserving meats, iron (in a good year) and fish were also traded for. Scotland lacked industry and everyday items and arms were imported such as armor, spears, bows and arrows, cart wheels, and wheelbarrows. 

Given their subsistence lifestyle there is no indication the nature of people was depressed.  They enjoyed the fair which included Drambooths offering whiskey, shooting galleries, boxing booths, swings, and sideshows. Localities had their local singers, harpists, and pipe players.  Yule, Easter, and Saints Days were celebrated until the Reformation and the church looking down on such events.  

Boys were married when they could do a man’s work and was able to bear arms often as young as 14.  Girls were married when she was nubile, often as young as 12, a necessity with a life expectancy in the early 30’s.  Neighbors were expected to provide a feast at the ceremony and essentials for setting up a household. Weddings were festive with feasting, dancing, and ribaldry although the Kirk attempted to change the wedding practices.  Women attended to the duties of house and children but also were expected to labor in the field, especially when the men were called away to war.

Men were bound to serve 40 days in service of the lord for war.  Eager to go they were equally eager to get back home and many would after a week or two regardless if the war was over or not.  When called to war the men brought their own weapons, wooden pike or spear, an axe or a short sword, a knife, and a targe (a small round wooded shield covered with animal skin).  They carried a small metal plate and would use it to cook their oat cakes with the meal including any animals plundered in the march.  War, raiding, and defending against raids fostered an adventurous spirit and many younger sons of the gentry and farming class sought their fortunes in other countries in wars or in merchandise.

The peasant of Scotland lacked the humility of others in England and Western Europe as the system was reliant on loyalty to a laird or lord who proved his quality as a man and had earned the loyalty.  Justice, and the responsibility for life and goods in his domain, was the responsibility of the lord and thus it was a system of men and not laws.  Within this system a tenant versus tenant dispute assured a reasonable chance at a fair hearing and resolution of the dispute.  Smaller claims were heard by the laird and higher by the lord but in most instances justice was delivered at the hand of the offended.  The phrase might makes right applies to the times. Hundreds of years later the Clan feuds of rural America trace back to Scotland.

Scotland was changed greatly by the Reformation which in Scotland was generally a peaceful affair (for the times) with the people won over to the ideals of Presbyterianism.  It introduced a measure of democracy in church governance, fostered a community belief in morality (enforced by the Kirk), and introduced rudimentary education to the masses so they may themselves search the word of the bible.  Saints Days celebrations were replaced with attendance at inordinately long sermons and attending to religious beliefs and practices.  The failing of the official church was the failing of all official churches in that they looked to dismiss all others although unlike other religions Presbyterians only fined and imprisoned non converts in lieu of death. 

1600s Scotland lacked the rule of law, science, industry, and trade.  The Renaissance was late in coming and the Scot, lord. laird, and peasant alike lived in a hostile environment with few years passed where there was not war.  They often held the same surname and were bound together by loyalty but were loyal where loyalty was earned.  They were devoutly religious and loyal to the Kirk and Presbyterianism and active participants in religious education and affairs of the church and this fostered morality, dignity and worth of all people, self discipline and a disciplined society, and the individual being of primary importance as a moral self created a moral society.

Any current study of the Scot-Irish “race” and attempts to apply attributes based upon the race  (as DNA research shows us) is erroneous at best.  The lowland Scot was a genetic product of multiple introductions of tribes over time; Gaels (Celts), Bretons (Celts), Angles (Germanic), Saxon (Germanic), Scots (Celtic via Ireland), Picts (unknown), Norse (Vikings and Danes), Normans (historically Viking), and others.  The genetic mix is different for each village, clan, and individual and so to assign a trait to a class of people based upon genetics is bound to fail.  IMHO, the nature versus nurture debate lies more so with the nurture and the environment brought up in.

That said the Scot of the lowland of this time was described as Stoic and Dour. It is often attributed to race or religion IMHO it is the times in which they lived which made such a hardy, stern, and bold people who could endure hardship which was upon their doorstep daily. The hierarchy of the Presbyterian Church, the Kirk, was such that the people were involved in the church and many were devout worshippers often willing to lose their life or freedom before denying their beliefs which added to their dour nature and loyalty to one another.  The Presbyterian lowland Scot was formed by isolation of country, turbulent affairs, and poverty but was not a subjugated individual.   

To assign generalities to the “Scot-Irish” also ignores the social status upon migration, time of migration, and the cause of the migration (persecution, famine, war, etc.). Whether young single men searching for fame and fortune or entire families and communities relocating two conditions need to be present to foster migration, hard times in your current location and the perception of better opportunities where you are going. Hard times existed in the lowlands of Scotland and given the opportunities to farm in Northern Ireland it is understandable that many would look to relocate there in the 1600s, my ancestors among them.      

Next up, Ulster Scot Presbyterians in Northern Ireland in the 1600s. 

“Cousin” News

I received an email from K.H., wife of C.H.  She advised her husbands line traced back to Joseph Hays b. 1782 in New Jersey.  C.H.’s R-BY96883 closely aligned with other Hays’ in Augusta County, VA.  Her question was that his DNA doesn’t seem close to mine and was wondering if we are of the same family at all? 

As she provided his Y deviations I compared them with mine and the first match was R-L151.  My original search revealed that R-L151 occurred years ago and shows it originating in the Corded Ware Society of Western Europe 3000-3500 BC.  Subsequently I found this site, https://indo-european.eu/2021/08/r1b-rich-earliest-corded-ware-a-yamnaya-related-vector-of-indo-european-languages/ with links to the original study it is reporting on, states that R-L151 is the most common Y-lineage among early Corded Ware males.  It originated west of Bohemia near the Rhine River. For anyone looking to do a deep dive into their DNA I suggest this site, https://indo-european.eu

“Greetings Cousin, a way back one,” is how I started my reply.  It was a short 4 paragraph response outlining that we shared a common grandfather, a founder of our patrilineal line, about 3000 years ago (an error as it was 3000 BC) explaining the far split in the DNA.  Testing at the Big-Y level on Family Tree DNA shows 11 deviations for me based on SNP’s tested.  Using an estimate life span of 50 years there are 60 generations in 3000 years.  Y-DNA Haplogroups are explained here, https://www.geni.com/projects/Y-DNA-haplogroups/3717#haplogroups.

The Corded Ware society was well established across Bohemia and the East European Forest Steppe area.  The Corded Ware Era was, as was the following eras after it, a very violent time.  DNA indicates migrations resulted in Y-DNA dispersal into local populations and it is believed that genocide of males in a conquered tribe allowed the Y-DNA of the conquerors to spread.  This continued into the middle ages.  It has been proposed that the R-U152 appeared in the Hallstatt Culture in the early Iron Age around 800 BC near the Italian Alps.  

K.H was unsure if Joseph Hays from New Jersey was a Presbyterian but he moved with his parents to Washington County, PA in 1792.  The only evidence to link C.H. and myself is a common spelling of our last name, a 5000 year old DNA match, and the century and location of migration to the America.  It is the name and locations which provide the best indications.  Joseph H. was born in NJ one year before the Revolutionary War ended.  It is quite possible they relocated to N.J. due to the war, either to escape warfare on the settlement fronts or because Joseph’s father was fighting on the side of the Revolutionaries and brought his wife along for safety so as to not leave her alone (common practice).

Settlement in Washington County, PA would have been dangerous as that was the front line of settlements with the Indians at the time.  Western PA was ceded to the U.S. (as part of the Northwest Territory) by the British but the Iroquois Federation didn’t ceed the land until 1784.  In 1790 and 1791 the new US Government tried to take control of the NW Territory but lost 2 battles with the Miami, Wabash, and Shawnee Tribes who were not party of the treaty with the Iroquois and Americans.  It wasn’t until The 1794 Battle of Fallen Timbers that the Miami, etc. were forced to accept.

So Joseph’s parents may have settled on “the Irish Tract” in Roanoke with other Hays Presbyterians, or PA, and it was common for people to move back and forth between the state of PA, VA, and eastern TN based upon circumstances,  If a Presbyterian Hays would have been able to read and write and generally the spelling of the name was not mixed, unless entered wrong by a clerk spelling phonetically and adding an “e” to it, Hays would be the surname of a working class Presbyterian Scot affiliated with a Lowland Clan Hay, possibly a cadet House.  Now whether they came from Ulster or direct from Scotland is anybodies guess.  But given the Northern Ireland had virtually whole congregations (and related Hays’) moving to the Americas on the same ship I think we have reasonable cause to believe that Joseph Hays’ parents came over from Northern Ireland.

I am honestly amazed that a very distant relative of 5000 years ago, in 3000 B.C the DNA splits, and he pops up with the same surname and experience in arriving in America.  That means 2 brothers in the Corded Ware Era and then their children, and their children, and on, and on, for 60 to 100 generations travelled west in Europe on a similar path.  My R-U152 (which C.H. doesn’t have) is suspected to have split at the Italian Alps with the Hallstatt Culture.  As our DNA had split before it is unknown if C.H. travelled the same route (I’ll leave that for them to research, DNA information is coming online in droves these days). But the known facts are both our lines travelled from present day Poland, across the Alps, through Germany and France and over to Scotland where we both ended up affiliated with the same Clan Hay in lowland Scotland, and migrated to America in the 1700s as “Hays” settling in the same areas of the colonies. 

Their line went from NJ and PA (DNA relatives in Roanoke) to Ohio (1802), Indiana, Missouri, then Oklahoma.  My line went through PA, VA, TN (late 1700s), OK (late 1800s), TX, back to OK then Depression Era Grapes of Wrath to CA.  And every Hays line that I have looked at arrived in America and went to the frontier (as it was known at that time), pioneer American’s.  I’m glad now that I secured the AmericanMan.org web address, because every American Hays (so far as I have seen) with a DNA link, no matter how distant, is an American Man.  I hope more people can put the story of their American Hays line down for future generations.    

On the question, could me and C.H. be of the same family?  Paternal surnames weren’t used until the 1400s and generally until the 1700s but certainly when queried what Clan ye be? we answered, “I’m with the Hay’s, the Hays spelling seeming (anecdotally) to me to be what is used by lowland working class Scots of the Clan Hay, the “Hays” surname they leaned to write in the 1500s and carried to Ulster and then America. Genealogy research says a common ancestor has to have both a surname link and a DNA link and we have that, albeit a long ago DNA link, but a link none the less.  So I say, Greetings Cousins, a way back one, but cousins none the less.     

Scotch, Scot, and Scots: a whiskey, a man, and a language.

Years back when my initial investigation into my Hays history revealed the name was of Scottish origin and related to Clan Hay (http://www.clanhay.org) I got a kilt in the proper Clan Hay tartan, picked up a CD of Highland Celtic folk songs, and headed off to the local highland games.  But DNA testing and my genealogical research over these past few years revealed there are two regions in Scotland, Highland and Lowland with the line running south-west, the exact boundary not clearly defined.  In addition to cultural differences in each of these a distinct language was spoken with Scottish Gaelic spoken in the highlands and Scots spoken in the lowlands.

Scottish Gaelic is a Celtic language.  The peoples first migrating into Ireland, Scotland, and England after the last ice age were Celtic speakers which descended from Proto-Celtic in Western Europe and the Iberian Peninsula.  Today these include Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Welsh, Breton, and Cornish. Scots is a branch of Teutonic (Proto-Germanic) languages, a branch of the Old English language with Old English being brought into the isles by germanic tribes, Angles and Saxons.  Old English split into Scots and English.  Today they include English, Lowland Scots, and Ulster Scots. 

Picts in the highlands spoke a Celtic tongue which differed from the language of the Gaelic Kingdom of Dalriada which covered the western seaboard of Scotland and Northeast Ireland.  In the 9th century they combined in the north of Scotland, then called Alba.  “Scot” and “Scotland” is derived from latin (Scoti), initially applied to all Gauls but by the 11th century it was used only for the Gaelic speakers in the highlands. Eventually Scot was applied to the all people in the Country.  So, ironically, the name of the language, Scots, comes from the Romans describing Gaelic Highlanders speaking Gaelic.

In the 5th and 6th century germanic tribes, Angles, and Saxons, began arriving on the east coast of Scotland and England speaking Old English (Angle ish).  The land controlled by them was known as Northumbria (east coast of Northern England and Southern Scotland).  Over the centuries, as Clans and Kings pushed each other around over time, Old English and Scots diverged and by the 12th century split into English in present day England and Scots in present day lowland Scotland, with Scots-Gaelic spoken in the highlands.  

References to differences between Scots (non-Gaeilic speakers) and Wild Scots (Gaels) appear in the mid 13th century with Scots referenced in written records after 1350.  John Barbours poem The Brus about about Robert the Bruce was in Scots and written in 1375. More frequent Scots written records start to appear in the late 1300’s and early 1400’s and in 1492 King James I of Scotland wrote The Kingis Quair (The Kings Book) in Scots.  Records of Scotlands Parliament are now being kept in Scots.

In 1456 Gilbert Hay’s The Buke of the Law of Armys is the earliest dated work to be translated from another language into Scots, in this instance French.  In 1901 The Scottish Text Society published Gilbert of the Haye’s Prose Manuscript (AD1456) Volume I. The Buke of the Law of Armys or Buke of Battles.  The Introduction informs us there is a folio in a Library at Abbotsford which contains the earliest dated literary prose in the Scottish Language.  Made in 1456, in Roslin Castle, at the command of the Earl of Orkney and Caithness, Chancellor of Scotland, by Sir Gilbert Haye, knight, late chamberlain to the King of France.

Sir Gilbert Haye, the Translator (Introduction pg. xxiii) is described as a poet rather than a prose writer.  While much about him is speculation, such as his lineage may be from Sir William Hay of Locharet.  Records at St. Andrews dated 1418 have a Gilbert’s Hay receiving a Bachelor in Decrees and in 1419 Gilbertus de Haya signing up for a Master of Arts degree.  He is referenced as both a Knight and Priest and spent 24 years in France in service to the King there, possibly serving with the Scots Guard.  Those interested in Hay history may enjoy the 119 page Introduction which speaks of Gilbert Hay, the manuscript, and the people involved.    

From the Buke of the Law of Armys in Scots Language

In the mid 16th century Standard English began to predominate the other languages as it was the language of trade and business and most printed materials in Great Britain were in English.  An example is the Geneva Bible which was translated into English and published in Scotland in 1579 and a law was passed in Scotland requiring every household of sufficient means to buy a copy.  Presbyterian Ministers quoting from it would then translate into Scots for their audience.  When in 1603 King James VI of Scotland became James I of England he addressed the English Parliament, “Hath not God first united these two Kingdomes both in Language, Religion, and similitude of maners?”. And in 1604 the Church of Scotland, the Kirk, noted the Authorized King James version of the bible, which was in English, was the official book. 

In 1609 Scottish Planters offered land in Ulster came from the western lowlands of Scotland where Scots was the common tongue and migrations from the lowlands was encouraged to help alleviate border problems.  Many more Scots left the lowlands for Ulster during the 1600’s due to religious and economic persecution adding to the Scots speakers in Ulster.  Today the language is referred to as Ulster-Scots, which many consider a dialect of Scots. 

The Ulster Scots Language Society says Ulster Scots was being spoken in the Americas in the early 1700’s, settlers speaking “their ain mother tongue”.   There are many references found in literature of the time regarding the “rough English” of the Ulster Scots in America which I suspect was Scots or at a minimum a heavy Scots influence on the English used at the time.  

John Hays Diary and Journal of 1760 of his expedition into Indian Country in PA transcribed from writing in his own hand in 1760 provides a clue that those Ulster Scots in who received an education did so in English as his writing, although with misspelling and grammar mistakes common to the time, appears to be English.  He was reportedly born in Northern Ireland but brought to America when he was 2 so his formal education would be in the states.  It is most likely that Ulster Scots and Scots in Scotland could switch back and forth between speaking Scots and English, often combining the two, at least well enough for their “rough English” to be understood. Those educated to read and write were in English as the available written works of the time were in English, the primary book being the bible.

But just as Old English from Europe evolved into Scots in Scotland and then into Ulster-Scots in Northern Ireland, it appears that in America it was absorbed into American English as were terms and phrases from British English, Indian languages, French, German, Spanish, and other immigrants.  As an example, Schenectady, NY (where I grew up). The name is from a Mohawk Indian term “Schau-naugh-ta-da” meaning “beyond the pines” and pronounced Ska-nect-ta-dee by the original dutch settlers in the 1660’s. Across the Mohawk River the lone non-Dutch original settler, a Scot named Alexander Lindsey Glen, named his patent (land grant) “Scotia” after his homeland and the Village of Scotia in the Town of Glenville exists to this day.

Although I could find not specific reference in writings of the time some claim the term “Red Neck” originated in the Ulster Scots in America as Covenanters, lowland Scot Presbyterians, wore a red neckerchief. This is quite possible as the pioneers militias when in battle had no uniforms and to distinguish your side from the other it was common to wear an identifying piece of cloth on clothes or hat to prevent friendly fire incidents. It isn’t a far stretch of the imagination to believe a term used for the Scot and Ulster Scot Presbyterians would follow them to America.

Studies show that generally first generation immigrants to America use their own language at home, the first generation born here will be somewhat conversational in the old language but not able to read and write it, and the third generation can neither speak or understand the mother tongue having taken up the local language. Early American pioneers most assuredly combined words and phrases from other languages as they developed the common tongue in America.

As Scots was a spoken language and English the written language we have no record of how long Scots was used in America.  Most likely the less educated, the pioneers and settlers, used it longer than those next to or within English settlements.  Many believe that the unique dialect in the Appalachian Mountains traces back to Scots but there is no direct proof of this.  But what we today call English in America is certainly different than English in Great Britain, Australia, Scotland, etc.  And even in America the language changes from north to south and east to west. 

But we can still find reference to the old Scots tongue in America when poets gather at Robbie Burn readings and on New Years Eve when we sing Auld Lang Syne in Scots (here mixed with a highland influence), or here with Scots and English subtitles for comparison. 

Interestingly, in “The Scots: A Genetic Journey” Alistair Moffat writes that there is a DNA marker which correlates to the Scots who spoke Gaelic.  S145 is a variant of the M269 marker and it appears in 48% of Welshmen and only 15% in neighboring England.  In Scotland it’s in 31% of men in Glasgow and the southwest dropping to 22% in Edinburg.   My DNA downstream of M269 lacks the marker, consistent with the presumed history of my Hays coming to Scotland from Normandy with no connection to the highlands.  As DNA research progresses we may be able to further accurately trace our ancestries where no paper trail exists.

A good video of the Scots Language and differences from English, The Scot’s Language, can be found here.  The Scots Language Center contains much information on the Scots Language.  The Ulster-Scots Language Society has information on their Scots language, as does the Ulster-Scot Academy.   And for differences in American English versus UK English the video, How are Biritsh English and American English different, is here.

I close wishing you Lang may yer lum reek! (May you live long and stay well.)

Patrick (PA) related to John (VA) related to Patrick (VA)????

Just as we almost all go back to a common ancestor in Africa 60,000 years ago I am beginning to wonder if there is common Hays ancestor of the Ulster Scot Presbyterian Hays’ who migrated first to Pennsylvania, then VA and ultimately TN and KY when the Cumberland Gap opened.  Naming patterns common the Ulster Scots are used here also to assume relation.  The 1st born male was usually named for the Paternal Grandfather, 2nd for the Maternal Grandfather, 3rd & 4th after an uncle.  The name of a child who died in infancy was often used again in the same family.  “Nephew” in written records refers to Grandsons and it wasn’t until around the Revolutionary war that we begin to see middle names used and the addition of a Sr or Jr. and “Grandson” used. 

FamilyTreeDNA offers Y-DNA tests with 12, 25, 37, 67, 111 markers, and Big Y-700 (which doesn’t give you a probability for relationships (more later).  I recently received my “Big Y-700” test results back and the listed most common ancestor for those I match with are both Patrick Hays of PA and John Hays of VA, assuming their posted family trees are correct.  The Big y test showed a close match with JBH who identified Patrick Hays (PA) as the Earliest Known Ancestor (EKN) and we have a common Y-DNA Haplogroup of R-FT115175.  The 111 test shows a JSH (R-M269) with a genetic distance of 5 related to Patrick Hays and JBH again with a genetic distance of 6. The 67 marker shows JSH at a genetic distance of 3, EGH (R-M269) with a genetic distance of 3 and the EKA as John Hays, 1752 Rockbridge, VA.  (initials of people used to politely mask identities).

As I understand it (remember I am an amateur!, go to https://isogg.org, International Society of Genetic Genealogy for more), the Genetic Distance is the number of differences in a tested marker, Short Tandem Repeat (STR) and the test number is the number of markers tested.  The Big Y looks at 700 STR’s and also tests Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNP, “snips”) which help identify paternal lineages 10-20 generations back.  For example, there are 15 markers between me and my closest match, JSH (R-M269) as I took a larger test.  Again ISOGG and FTDNA have much more information on these (and other DNA) topics.

The records (Chalkley) show a John Hays (wife Rebecca) and children self importing to Rockbridge, VA in 1740 and on the same day a Patrick Hays (wife Frances) with children.  John Hays also has grown sons who arrived in VA the same time as he did.  Many sites suspect these two are brothers which is incorrect (IMHO).  The Bibliographic Encyclopedia of Dauphin County, PA (Encyclopedia) show that a Patrick Hays (wife Jean) arrived in Derry PA with his brother Hugh, William, and James.  Patrick (PA) and Patrick (VA) having different wives and children names obviously aren’t the same person.  So what is the relationship between the three and can my DNA test help?

Biographical Encyclopedia of Dauphin County, PA

Patrick (PA) was born in 1705 in County Donnegal, Ireland and came to PA in 1728 with his brothers.  It is quite possible that other Hays’ came at the same time, remember, it was not uncommon for nearly the entire Church memberships or villages to leave for the Americas at the same time on the same ship, or perhaps they came shortly after with Patrick (PA) as as a stopping off point.  Beverly Manor (1736) and the Borden Grant (1739) hadn’t been open to settlement yet.  It also appears that Patrick (PA), John (VA) and Patrick (VA) were men of some means as they paid their passage (most came over indentured, more on that in a later blog) and could afford to purchase land.  PA offered 50 acres to each man under the headlight system but much of the available good farm land was taken and more expensive to buy.  The Borden Grant offered 100 acres for self importers (you had to put up a cabin and settle) and each 100 acres for a shilling.     

Biographical Encyclopedia of Dauphin County, PA

By my calculations I estimate that John (VA) and Patrick (PA) are 8 generation from me (possibly 9).  My closest match at 111 markers, JSH shows Patrick (PA) as EKA and the comparison chart estimates that there is a 76.48% probability and at 67 markers a 85.82% probability.  EGH who has John (VA) as her EKA also has a 67 marker 85.82% probability.   MBH at 67 shows a 51.48% probability and at 111 a 61.51% probability at 8 generations.  I’m not sure why the percentages move like they do and I’ll need to do more research on that.  The fact that my closest match JBH has a lower probability leads me to believe that my line does not go through John (VA) or Patrick (PA) Hays and might go through Patrick (VA) or another Hays related to him.  At 10 generations JSH is at (111) 89.48 and (67) 93.34, JBH is (111) 79.93% and (67) 69.62, and EGH (67) is 93.34.  At 12 generation EGH is (67) 97.09%, JSH is (111) 95.74%, and JBH (111) is 90.67%.     

Using the name patterns common to Ulster Scots I see that Patrick (PA) has Brothers Hugh, William, and James and his son’s are (in birth order) David, Robert, William, Samuel, and Patrick.  Patrick (VA) has sons named William and Samuel.  John (VA) has sons Andrew, Charles, John, and James (deceased by 1750) with Grandsons named James and John, Jr.  This indicates to me that Patrick (VA) is the nephew of Patrick (PA) with no indication if Hugh, William, or James is his father.  John (VA) and Patrick (PA) are not brothers and the lack of a common name in their family trees indicates that their relationship is further than their Grandfathers.  

 Patrick (PA) and John (VA) sit 8 generations from me, their Grandfathers 10 but it is at 12 generations that probabilities go above 90% for all connected to me on Family Tree DNA.  So going back to 12 generations from me to 1650 if A Hays had 4 sons (1675) and each of them had 4 sons (1700) which includes the about year that John (VA) and Patrick (PA) were born the two of them would have 64 cousins.  And given the fact that the Ulster Scots in northern Ireland stayed among themselves due to their Presbyterian religion and that they came over to America in bulk, and given the DNA probabilities, it is highly likely that there is a Common Ancestor about the 1650’s.  

But given the lack of records prior to and into the 1700’s which can identify people and their relation to each other and given the fact that the Hays, after arriving in PA in the early 1700’s spread out to new territories as the nation expanded, being among the first pioneers to settle Greene, TN (closely following the Wautauga Settlement in 1776), among the original settlers of the Cumberland Settlement (1779, Nashville), and 1775 blazing the Wilderness Road through the Cumberland Gap into Kentucky and settling there, the record will end before we get to Northern Ireland and we’ll have to rely on DNA to finish the story.  To this end I encourage everyone to get their Y-DNA done at Family Tree DNA, https://www.familytreedna.com/, and find your relatives and ancestors there.  

My line going backwards has a James, Thomas Jefferson (obvious where that came from), Robert Alexander, William A., George, and William b. 1773 in Rockbridge, VA d. 1857 Greene, TN and that last is my wall (for now).  Patrick (PA) and Patrick (VA) both have William in their line so name matching has me suspect my line is through Patrick (PA) or one of his brothers (a father to Patrick (VA).  But only field research and luck will confirm this.

And the historical research continues.